Why cant priests marry when Peter, the first Pope, was married?

[wretched_sinner_1]

You need to do more reading.St. Peter was married for over 50 years,
his wife Perpetua travelled with him to Rome, she died a martyr and
their daughter, Petronilla, died in AD 98. This is attested by early Church
historian Eusebius and by the apocryphal Acts of Peter (where she appears
frequently)
Also, Clement of Alexandria recorded her martrydom earlier in
the Miscellanies (Book VII): He writes that as Peter saw Perpetua led
away to her death, he was "glad that her call had come and that she
was returning home…[and] in the most encouraging and comforting of tones
he called her by name and said “My dear, remember the Lord”.

From the book of Saints:
PERPETUA (St.) (Aug. 4)
(1st cent.) A Roman matron, baptised by the Apostle St. Peter, and, as a Christian, zealous in good works. She brought to the Light of the Faith her husband and her son (the future Martyr, St. Nazarius). In all likelihood she died in Rome, but from early times her sacred relics have been venerated in Milan.

PETRONILLA (St.) V. (May 31)

(1st cent.) A Roman virgin, converted to Christianity by the Apostle St. Peter, and who afterwards ministered to him until her death at an early age. The name Petronilla (a diminutive of Petronia) from its similarity with the derivatives from Peter (Petrus), probably led to the belief that she was St. Peter’s daughter, whereas she was only his spiritual or adopted child.

The Book of Saints. 1921 (217). London: A & C Black.

 

[guanophore]

From the book of Saints:
PERPETUA (St.) (Aug. 4)
(1st cent.) A Roman matron, baptised by the Apostle St. Peter, and, as a Christian, zealous in good works. She brought to the Light of the Faith her husband and her son (the future Martyr, St. Nazarius). In all likelihood she died in Rome, but from early times her sacred relics have been venerated in Milan.

PETRONILLA (St.) V. (May 31)

(1st cent.) A Roman virgin, converted to Christianity by the Apostle St. Peter, and who afterwards ministered to him until her death at an early age. The name Petronilla (a diminutive of Petronia) from its similarity with the derivatives from Peter (Petrus), probably led to the belief that she was St. Peter’s daughter, whereas she was only his spiritual or adopted child.

The Book of Saints. 1921 (217). London: A & C Black.

Yes, it is not likely that Peter’s wife or daughter were Roman, as he had his family in Galilee before He was called to Christ. They may have been diasporadic Jews but were Palestinian in origin.

 

[Tomdstone]

I have an article on my blog that covers the reasons for celibacy. Check it out.
Priestly celibacy is unBiblical. NOT!

how does one explain the fact that 39 Popes were married?
johnshuster.com/thirtynine_popes.htm

 

[Gorgias]

how does one explain the fact that 39 Popes were married?

• Clerical celibacy is a discipline, not a dogma. In other words, it is not divinely revealed, but is an administrative ruling of the Church for the good of the faithful. Prior to its full development, why would we expect that it was completely in effect?
• The long-standing practice in the Church is that, under particular circumstances, married men may be ordained (but not vice-versa: ordained men may not marry). These days, this practice is rather the exception in the Latin Rite. (Please note the implication here: there are married Latin Rite Catholic priests. It is not impossible that one of these could be named the pope, even today. Likely? Hardly. Impossible? Nope.)
• Nobody’s perfect. Even the notion of papal infallibility extends only to matters of faith and morals, not to one’s ability to lead a perfect and sinless life. If some popes in antiquity were less than salutary in their lived experience of celibacy, it only shows that popes, like the rest of us, are human, not divine.

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

There are 7 Rites within the Catholic Church and 6 out of the 7 allow priests that are married. The only Rite that does not allow married priests is the Latin/Roman Rite. A priest can not marry after he has become a priest, but he may become a priest if he is already married in all Rites but the Latin/Roman.

 

[someperson555]

You make it sound like if someone’s not having sex they have some problem and they have to find some release so therefore they will rape a kid. Huh?!? That’s insulting to those of us who are remaining chaste! If there’s a guy who has enough discipline and self-control to give up marriage for the sake of Christ, I would actually trust him just as much as a married man, maybe even more. Celibacy doesn’t cause rape, it’s a perverted view of the human person - where people exist solely for your own pleasure - that leads to rape. .

well yeah, frankly speaking if by his/her mid twenties a person is still a virgin and is not a monastic, there is something wrong there. its just wierd. celibacy (like fasting and other forms of self denial) is for the purpose of detaching oneself from the world and seeking a more intimate union with God. but this is what monks and nuns do, not priests. their job is different therefore denying them the pleasure of sex and the joy of family life is cruel.

And the data does not add up to what you were saying either. Sadly, the group with the highest percentage of child abusers is family members: Fathers, mothers, step-mothers, step-fathers, uncles and aunts. And these people are usually married. There’s tons of saints who were celibates who lived great holy lives. (Mother Teresa anyone?) And there’s lots of married saints as well, it’s whatever God calls you too…

but these people are usually not catholic families and they usually have other vices too.

Also, theres no reason to think that the drop in vocations has anything to do with celibacy. If celibacy was something new and right when that came around there was a shortage of priests, then maybe you are right, but that’s simply not the case. It’s because people have lost the knowledge of the awesomeness of Catholicism and the priesthood that there’s a shortage. They dont think religion even matters, so why would they even consider priesthood? .

that is not true lol. there are many fervent souls out there who dont want to become priests because they would be denied the right to marry. now youre the one whos being insulting. because you are basically asserting that anyone who doesnt want to choose celibacy over marriage doesnt know the “awesomeness” of the faith. lol i find it funny how most people i know who advocate celibacy for priests are married themselves. are you married robyn? why didnt YOU choose the priesthood over marriage? if celibacy is such a “beautiful gift” lol. its hypocritical to preach celibacy when you yourself are married.

Celibacy is a convenient scapegoat but its only ignoring the real problem, in that our people aren’t being catechized properly. Getting rid of celibacy will not fix that whatsoever. But actually the tide is turning and there’s a whole new wave of young vibrant priests coming in who are in love with Christ and his church, I know a few.

Finally, celibacy is a beautiful gift to the Church. It’s a sign that there’s more to this life than pleasure and God is the one who matters most. This doesn’t degrade marriage, but as St. Paul himself said, “he who marries does well, but he who does not marry does better.”

the church is not sola scripture. i could find a bunch of verses advocating sex and reproduction. we could quote bible verses to eachother all day. but in the end all that matters is what the infallible magisterium of the church says. and celibacy for priesthood is NOT dogma.
if you want to get into a bible quoting contest i can find a quote from the bible which advocates polygyny. here: “a bishop must be blameless, the husband of one wife…” -timothy

 

[someperson555]

Certainly it is difficult not to be suspicious, and parents should exercise caution in protecting their children. However, the duty of the priest is to bring the sacraments to the faithful, not provide babysitting.

and marriage wouldnt conflict with their duties to bring sacraments to the faithful.

Actually vocations are on the rise, especially in very traditional parishes and programs. the so called “vocation crisis” has nothing to do with the discipline of celibacy. Most priests come from large Catholic families, which are really what is dwindling. The majority of priests are between the 3-5 born child. How many families do you know that have 3-5 children? This is more a crisis of marriage, and specifically birth control, than the fact that people answer the call to serve. If a person is aborted, they will never be able to become a priest.?

lol its funny how you puritans always find a way to blame ANY problem in society on sex. how did your mind wander from clerical celibacy to birth control? while abortion is a great evil that doesnt have anything to do with dwindling vocations either. and im hard pressed in believing your statement that “vocations are on the rise” since every day in church they always pray for more vocations.
i actually think its the other way around. all these vices exist in society due to the lack of priests. which is due to the celibacy requirment.

When was the last time you encouraged a young man to think about the priesthood? Do you know ANYONE who has ever encouraged a young man to discern this vocation? Do you pray to the Lord of the Harvest to send workers into the field? Do you know anyone who does?

i wont encourage a young man to become a priest if he wants to marry. dont get me wrong i really do hope that one way or another the vocation crisis is resolved and i will be praying for that. but anyone with common sense can see that mandatory celibacy is definitely one of the biggest reasons why many good young men dont become priests.

as i said to robyn, asceticism is for the purpose of detachment and forming a more intimate union with God. but it is not for everyone and it is not for priests either. asceticism in itself is unprofitable and useless. it is only good when used for a greater good.

Why?

Who makes the rules for “fair”?

Was it “unfair” for Jesus to have to give His life for us?

Was it “unfair” to ask His Apostles to sacrifice everything?

Mark 10:28

28 Peter began to say to him, “Look, we have left everything and followed you.”

again, the church is not sola scripture.

Besides, it is not a matter of the person “choosing between the priesthood and married life”. Both of these are full time vocations. God calls people according to His own design, and it is incumbent upon us to answer the call. Who are we, the created, to say to the Creator “its not fair!”

and in the old times God called married men to the priesthood

Young men don’t just “choose” the priesthood as one chooses a major in college or some other job or career. They must participate in a rigorous discernment process, and most of them realize that the priesthood is not for them. Some, the church decides not to enlist in this service.

Really? Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

I recommend some study of the faith, reading and writing first.

A position that clearly indicates you are not a good candidate for the priesthood.

how are you qualified to make that call? this is why i dont understand you puritans, why do you view someone living out their natural sexuality as “dirty” or “imperfect”? do you think that if a priest has sex with his wife he is “stained” or something? how can the church be pro-life and pro- family yet deny the sacred institution of marriage to priests?

Perhaps, after you spend some time with the catechism, and working on your literary skills, you could investigate the diaconate?

i would be interested in being a deacon. although i think im still too young. if thats what God has planned for me, who knows

 

[PeaceInChrist]

someperson55, you are saying some quite ridiculous things. Firstly, priestly celibacy has been around for around 1,000 years as a discipline. It’s likely not going anywhere. This is where obedience comes into effect on your part and on the part of the entire Church. You speak against celibacy with absolutely no authority, and you also convey a lack of understanding of the discernment process. The men I know who are currently in seminary are absolutely dedicated to Christ and are some of the most ordered men I know, and as I discern, the call that God gives me will be the call that I follow. If I were called to priesthood, I would absolutely be willing to forgo marriage. The Church would be my bride, and the congregation would be my children.

You have some very non-Catholic views on sex. For instance, that someone in their mid-20s and being a virgin is ‘frankly wrong.’ I suppose my ability to practice chastity is somewhat disconcerting to you? Is your will really so weak that you cannot comprehend that some people, even those who are not priests or monks, would be willing to wait for sex, both for the good of their spouse and for Christ?

My friend, I am sorry to say it, but with the attitude you have towards the authority of the Church to impose disciplines upon the faithful, your attitudes towards ordered sexuality, and your rather belligerent attitude towards obedient Catholics (whom you deem ‘puritans’), you are in no way, shape, or form an ideal candidate for priesthood or the diaconate. Or marriage, for that matter. I’d recommend you begin spiritual direction with an orthodox priest.

 

[guanophore]

how does one explain the fact that 39 Popes were married?
johnshuster.com/thirtynine_popes.htm

Why does it need to be “explained”? It was having married clergy that convinced the Church that there were much less problems created if those who are called to serve in Holy Orders are chosen from among those who are also gifted with celibacy.

There is nothing"wrong" with married life, or those in service being married. The Church prefers to choose from among those whose interests are not divided, especially when it comes to the Bishop, whose chief concern is shepherding of the flock of God.

1 Cor 7:32-35

32 I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; 33 but the married man is anxious about the affairs of the world, how to please his wife, 34 and his interests are divided. And the unmarried woman and the virgin are anxious about the affairs of the Lord, so that they may be holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about the affairs of the world, how to please her husband. 35** I say this for your own benefit**, not to put any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and unhindered devotion to the Lord.

 

[guanophore]

Wow.

There are so many distortions in this post, it is hard to know where to begin a response. I will pray for you.

 well yeah, frankly speaking if by his/her mid twenties a person is still a virgin and is not a monastic, there is something wrong there.  its just wierd.

On what standards do you base this assessment? What evidence can you bring to bear that sexual continence is “weird”?

celibacy (like fasting and other forms of self denial) is for the purpose of detaching oneself from the world and seeking a more intimate union with God. but this is what monks and nuns do, not priests.

Abstinence and sexual chastity is for EVERYONE! All persons who are not in a valid marriage are expected to exercise chastity. Yes, a lifestyle of celibacy is specifically for consecrating one’s sexuality, as well as everything else, completely to the Lord’s service. But we are are expected to consecrate ourselves to God every day of our lives, in whatever our vocation.

their job is different therefore denying them the pleasure of sex and the joy of family life is cruel.

The "job’ assigned to the priest is not related to one’s vow of celibacy. A person who enters such a vow does so apart from whether one will ever know if one is called to the priesthood, or to serve in a parish. There are many “jobs” for priests.

Your assertion that a priest is not expected to detach himself from worldy pleasures and be consecrated to God is false.

Sex was not created for “pleasure”, but for procreation.

The Church has found it burdensome to support entire families, and disrupt them by moving them from parish to parish as is the habit especially in the United States. In my archdiocese every priest is moved every five years.

There is nothing “cruel” about setting aside fleshly pleasures, whether it is sexual or not. Such a concept reveals a very warped perspective on the purpose of our lives here on earth. Furthermore, no own imposes a vow of celibacy upon anyone, ,so accusing the Church of “cruelty” because she prefers to choose from among those gifted with celibacy to serve as priests is absurd.

 that is not true lol.  there are many fervent souls out there who dont want to become priests because they would be denied the right to marry.

There are very many opportunites to lead and serve in the church besides the consecrated priesthood. I am not sure I agree with your assertion that there are “many fervent souls”, but anyone who feels called to the priesthood should certainly immediately enter a formation and discernment process. This will also help them if they do eventually choose to marry.

It is a falsehood that the CC “denies the right to marry” to anyone.

Those who take on vows of celibacy do so freely.

now youre the one whos being insulting.  because you are basically asserting that anyone who doesnt want to choose celibacy over marriage doesnt know the "awesomeness" of the faith.

No, not at all. On the contrary, most of those who enter the priesthood come from families where they are born 3-5th child. Birth control and the social climate against large families is a larger factor in diminished vocations to the priesthood.

In communties and parishes where the congregation is fervent for God, there are many who answer the call to vocation. The appreciation of the awesomeness of our faith increases vocations.

lol i find it funny how most people i know who advocate celibacy for priests are married themselves.

Many have had a difficult period of discernment in learning whether God has called them to Holy Orders, or marriage. The bottom line is that the Church is in dire need of the gift of celibacy. Since you seem to place sexual pleasure above the service to God it makes sense that you would have this cynical attitude about the gift.

 if celibacy is such a "beautiful gift" lol.  its hypocritical to preach celibacy when you yourself are married.

This statement also reflects a very distorted mindset.

Both marriage and celibacy are important gifts in the Church. Obviously, the gift of celibacy grows when there more fruitful marriages with many children. The two gifts need one another.

   but in the end all that matters is what the infallible magisterium of the church says.  and celibacy for priesthood is NOT dogma.

And yet, we are to embrace the teaching of the Magesterium with faithful obedience. Why do you kick against the goads?

Do you not believe that Jesus has the power to direct the Magesterium differently?

verse fro the bible which advocates polygyny. here: “a bishop must be blameless, the husband of one wife…” -timothy

In America, a form of serial polygamy is practiced, where people generally have one partner at a time, but have many of them over a lifetime.

The reason this directive was given is because Paul is instructing Timothy in how to discern whether a person will be faithful to vows he has taken. If a person enters marriage vows, then leaves his spouse, it is less likely he will remain committed to a vow of Holy Orders.

This passage is also misunderstood by many to be a requirement to become a bishop.
But since Paul wrote it, a celibate man, to another celibate Bishop, we know that it is not required to be married to become a Bishop.

 

[guanophore]

and marriage wouldnt conflict with their duties to bring sacraments to the faithful.

There may be circumstances in which it would not, but most parish priests are very overworked. They have very large congregations and very little help. They must often get up in the middle of the night to attend the sick and respond to crises.

Those priests we do have in the Latin Rite who are married advocate the celibate priesthood for that reason. In America, married priests may serve in a parish only if they are not the only priest available, so that they do not deprive their families for the sake of the flock.

In any case, we are not in the position to make this determination. God has given the Bishops the care of the flock, and the Bishops of Latin Rite, especially in America have determined that marriage does distract from priestly duties.

Your rebellion against their decision reflects a serious spiritual state.

lol its funny how you puritans always find a way to blame ANY problem in society on sex.

You seem to have a mocking tone in your posts, which also is a sign of a serious spiritual state.

The problem you are having with your ability to reason and understand what other posters are writing may not be a cognitive disability, but a spiritual resistance. No one here has given ANY puritanical responses to you. You are asserting here that Catholics who support the Bishops on the issue of choosing only from among those called to celibacy to the priesthood is a result of blaming sex for a problem in society. In fact, the opposite is being said. A sexually active and fruitful Catholic marriage produces more celibate persons than a Catholic marriage using birth control. There is nothing puritanical or antisex about it. More sex in marriage = more children = more vocations to the priesthood.

how did your mind wander from clerical celibacy to birth control?

I have done quite a bit of study on this issue, and there is a very high correlation between the use of birth control in marriages, the low birth rate, and less vocations to the priesthood.

while abortion is a great evil that doesnt have anything to do with dwindling vocations either.

You say this because you do not realize that the culture of death affects the number of people in total, and the number entering Holy Orders.

and im hard pressed in believing your statement that “vocations are on the rise” since every day in church they always pray for more vocations.

I can see how a cynical and defiant attitude such as the one you have presented in your posts would also result in a lack of faith that our daily prayers for vocations are not being effective.

i actually think its the other way around. all these vices exist in society due to the lack of priests. which is due to the celibacy requirment.

Isa 5:20-21
20 Ah, you who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter!
21 Ah, you who are wise in your own eyes,
and shrewd in your own sight!

Calling the good gift of God “evil” shows a moral compass that has been reversed.

Evil comes from disobedience, like rebelling against the pastoral authority of your Bishops, for example.

i wont encourage a young man to become a priest if he wants to marry.

Why not? Don’t you trust that God is able to lead a young man in the right direction? Do you have any idea what kind of discernment and formation process is involved? Don’t you realize that young men who marry after discerning a priestly vocation have much healthier marriages?

dont get me wrong i really do hope that one way or another the vocation crisis is resolved and i will be praying for that.

You might also trust God, and His overseers, the Bishops to shepherd the flock as He wills. He promised to lead them into all Truth.

but anyone with common sense can see that mandatory celibacy is definitely one of the biggest reasons why many good young men dont become priests.

There are many ministries in the Church, and young people should be encouraged to pursue them. If a young man is called to the priesthood, then God will give him the gift of celibacy.

asceticism is for the purpose of detachment and forming a more intimate union with God.  but it is not for everyone and **it is not for priests either**.

It is arrogant for you to take this prounouncement upon yourself. Anti scriptural also.

asceticism in itself is unprofitable and useless. it is only good when used for a greater good.

In that case, I will certainly pray that you will use your own in such a manner.

again, the church is not sola scripture.

That is an ineffective dodge. You are claiming it is “unfair” to choose from those who are given the gift of celibacy for the priesthood. Scripture makes it clear it is not.

and in the old times God called married men to the priesthood

Yes, and still does. Those who are married may enter the priesthood.