Why Catholic now? Abuse reports getting worse, lost interest in Inquiry

[lufty]

What keeps your regular Catholic going these day? Or how about those in RCIA or Inquiry as I am?

I find it disheartening that so little outrage from within the Catholic Community is present, nor are discussions regarding the Vatican’s lack of action to resolve this, and punish those Clergy that are guilty. Reading these forums, mostly I see allot of finger-pointing to the secular media for “attacking” the CC, yet many, if not most of these allegations on sexual abuse are a reality.

I for one have found it difficult to even consider attending Mass, or continuing with the Inquiry stage at this point, with so little (name removed by moderator)ut by the Catholic community present.

 

[tafan]

Well, its a continuation of what has gone on for the last 10-15 years. We all accept the scandal and the horrible nature of the crims committed against these kids. There is no doubt that many of the Bishop’s took the seriously, wrong tack for decades. But that changed in 2002. All diocese in the US have taken firm stances to see that it doesn;t happen again (yes Europe needs to catch up a little). You don’t see all of that being reported. Nor do you see that anything about Benedict XVI being one of the most active curial officials to deal with these issues through the late 90s and early 2000s. For example, it was he who changed the rule on which sex abuses cases had to be reported to the vatican. It was he who reopened the case against Fr. Marciel and disciplined him. One must wonder on the intent of the reporting.

 

[MercyMia]

Lufty - The short answer is, there is not another church on the face of the earth that can claim to be founded by Jesus Chrsit.

Jesus himself warned us there would always be scandal. Even Jesus had Judas in His inner circle.

The Catholic Church gets the most press…but abuse is equally and often times more rampant in other denominations. The coverage has been very strange because they aren’t reporting on new cases, but drudging up old cases and trying to make a connection to the Pope that doesn’t exist. I believe that child abuse should ALWAYS be brought to light and reported on. These victims need a voice. However, the media is trying to put a spin on things to discredit the Pope that just isn’t there.

If you want some good background on the whole thing browse the blogs of Patrick Madrid, Mark Shea and Jimmy Aiken - they have really been ontop of this.

 

[crazzeto]

I can only suggest reading up on the facts actually at hand for the stories being dreged up by the secular media. It’s not nearly as bad as being made out in the popular media. The reporting has been shoddy, in fact down right yellow. In most if not all cases they’ve refused to actually interview the persons they mis-quoted to try and constrew it as if the Pope him self were wrapped up at the very least in the cover up (if you were to beleive everything being published, one would almost believe the pontiff him self were abusing childeren).

Here are some good reports regarding the scandals

catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=35974

catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=36086
catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=36084
catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=36049
catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=36024
catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=35956

 

[shondrea]

I feel bad for the children who were harmed, and think the priests who offended need to be dealt with adequately, but this is a small portion of the over 1 billion practicing Catholics in the world. it happens EVERYWHERE. Public schools; should your kids stop going to school? What about other churches?

Horrible things like this happen in every single organization on earth, ever, I’m sure. That is not a marker of the intergrity of said organization.

 

[Edwardjohn]

“Perhaps you know the mediaeval story of a Jew who traveled to the papal court and who became a Catholic. On his return, someone who knew the papal court well asked him: ‘Did you realize what sort of things are going on there?’ ‘Yes,’ he said, ‘of course, quite scandalous things, I saw it all.’ ‘And you still became a Catholic’ remarked the other man. ‘That’s completely perverse!’ Then the Jew said, 'It is because of all that that I have become a Catholic. For if the Church continues to exist in spite of it all, then truly there must be someone upholding her.” Joseph Ratzinger,God and The World,p64.

 

[tinalewis]

The last wave of abuse scandals in this country was what got me to decide to join the Catholic church!

Actually, it was two things: JPII’s death and the sexual abuse news back in . . . oh I guess it was 2005 or so. I don’t exactly have it on my calendar.

Does anyone remember what Billy Joel said how he wrote his song about New York? He was living in California and New York defaulted on their city bills and wanted President Ford to give them assistance. I recall that period well. And Ford refused (I guess you had to be a bank in order to qualify for federal government bailouts, but I’m flirting with an anachronism here . . . ). According to Billy Joel, when he heard what happened, he immediately left California and headed back home to New York. He figured New York needed him.

That’s how I felt about the Catholic Church. When your child needs you, do you walk away? When a friend has a problem, do you say ‘goodbye’? Or do you help out as much as you can, to be there as a comfort if nothing else?

Nope, for me it was: “I think I have something to contribute to the Catholic Church, even if it’s only that I’m 100% on board with becoming Catholic.” I decided to step up and cast my lot with the Catholic Church. I figured they needed my little expressions of joy and my devotion during trying times.

 

[lufty]

Some good advice. However, it’s reports like the statements by Bill Donohues, who on CNN Live rationalized that some molested boys were post-pubescent, and same sex attracted so it wasn’t really pedophilia the priests were performing. Some of these kids are 14 years old.

What? And this from the President of the Catholic League? And STILL president?

videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/bill-donohue-child-molesting-priests-weren

 

[Crumpy]

1. I am upset about the predators who seemed to wanted to stay in the Church, in the first jplace. I mean, are all those people crazy? didn’t they wake up the next morning and say, Oh, God, what have I done? Shouldn’t they have made plans to quietly but quickly leave the active ministry? This alone shows me how unstable those people are and how bad it was to just move these priests from one place to another.
2. Yes, the whole thing coming back into the news again, makes me want to vomit.
3. Then there are the stories about priests who have migrated across national boundaries and are still in ministry, youth ministries, at that. Why haven’t these priests been kicked out?
4. Why haven’t any of the victims or their parents retaliated against the priests? You’d think at least some of them would have wanted some frontier justice, and that there would be reports of priests who have suddenly disappeared.
5. It seems that even bishops who made “mistakes” should be paying for their mistakes – even early retirement – get out of active ministry.
6. Yes, the pope said the other day that suspected cases should be turned over to civil authorities. But, even those under suspicion should be suspended, it seems.
7. Why isn’t there authomatic exommunication for sexual predators. It does’t seem that much due process is required to deal with the immediate crisis of priestly sexual predatory conduct.

My patience is wearing thin.

 

[crazzeto]

Some good advice. However, it’s reports like the statements by Bill Donohues, who on CNN Live rationalized that some molested boys were post-pubescent, and same sex attracted so it wasn’t really pedophilia the priests were performing. Some of these kids are 14 years old.

What? And this from the President of the Catholic League? And STILL president?

videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/bill-donohue-child-molesting-priests-weren

I wouldn’t take what Bill says as official Church teaching… Some apologists go just a little too far trying to defend the Church. I would say remain honest, remain charitable but most of all remain informed.

 

[Edwardjohn]

The last wave of abuse scandals in this country was what got me to decide to join the Catholic church!

Actually, it was two things: JPII’s death and the sexual abuse news back in . . . oh I guess it was 2005 or so. I don’t exactly have it on my calendar.

Does anyone remember what Billy Joel said how he wrote his song about New York? He was living in California and New York defaulted on their city bills and wanted President Ford to give them assistance. I recall that period well. And Ford refused (I guess you had to be a bank in order to qualify for federal government bailouts, but I’m flirting with an anachronism here . . . ). According to Billy Joel, when he heard what happened, he immediately left California and headed back home to New York. He figured New York needed him.

That’s how I felt about the Catholic Church. When your child needs you, do you walk away? When a friend has a problem, do you say ‘goodbye’? Or do you help out as much as you can, to be there as a comfort if nothing else?

Nope, for me it was: “I think I have something to contribute to the Catholic Church, even if it’s only that I’m 100% on board with becoming Catholic.” I decided to step up and cast my lot with the Catholic Church. I figured they needed my little expressions of joy and my devotion during trying times.

Amen! “For such a time as this.”

 

[CMatt25]

What keeps your regular Catholic going these day? Or how about those in RCIA or Inquiry as I am?

I find it disheartening that so little outrage from within the Catholic Community is present, nor are discussions regarding the Vatican’s lack of action to resolve this, and punish those Clergy that are guilty. Reading these forums, mostly I see allot of finger-pointing to the secular media for “attacking” the CC, yet many, if not most of these allegations on sexual abuse are a reality.

I for one have found it difficult to even consider attending Mass, or continuing with the Inquiry stage at this point, with so little (name removed by moderator)ut by the Catholic community present.

I do understand. *The National Catholic Reporter *even had an article about Church files showing Pope Benedict as Cardinal hesitating on defrocking an Oakland CA priest because of concerns as to the effect it would have on the Church.

ncronline.org/news/accountability/more-documents-link-ratzinger-abuse-cases

And I have repeatedly wondered how true apostolic successor shepherds who know to teach the sanctity of life didn’t know enough not to cover up child abuse. The answer I always got was don’t believe any of the media reports and chalk it up to sin.

I understand we all sin. But it’s still a tough swallow for me to think apostolic successors don’t know enough not to cover up child abuse.

 

[crazzeto]

1. I am upset about the predators who seemed to wanted to stay in the Church, in the first jplace. I mean, are all those people crazy? didn’t they wake up the next morning and say, Oh, God, what have I done? Shouldn’t they have made plans to quietly but quickly leave the active ministry? This alone shows me how unstable those people are and how bad it was to just move these priests from one place to another.

I’m not so sure any of us are qualified to answer for what the preditors were thinking. Rest assured, they will be judged by the perfect judge. That should be enough for us.

1. Yes, the whole thing coming back into the news again, makes me want to vomit.

Ditto, though I suspect our points are different…

1. Then there are the stories about priests who have migrated across national boundaries and are still in ministry, youth ministries, at that. Why haven’t these priests been kicked out?

In the early day’s particularly there was a belief these kinds of offenders could be cured. Indeed Bishops hired psychiatrists who affirmed and testified that these men were cured and could go back to work. Sadly this turned out not to be the case. Needless to say as time marched on, the CDF started defrocking offenders.

1. Why haven’t any of the victims or their parents retaliated against the priests? You’d think at least some of them would have wanted some frontier justice, and that there would be reports of priests who have suddenly disappeared.

This seems to be a point of pure anger, I would suggest taking some time praying about this.

1. It seems that even bishops who made “mistakes” should be paying for their mistakes – even early retirement – get out of active ministry.

Some are RE Archbishop of Dublin (was it?). But you can’t fully blame men for honest mistakes, see my point earlier about a belief that these men were cured.

1. Yes, the pope said the other day that suspected cases should be turned over to civil authorities. But, even those under suspicion should be suspended, it seems.

On what grounds do you say this? I take it you’re not a believer in innocent until proven guilty?

1. Why isn’t there authomatic exommunication for sexual predators. It does’t seem that much due process is required to deal with the immediate crisis of priestly sexual predatory conduct.

My patience is wearing thin.

Christ didn’t come into the world to condem it, but to save it (John 12:47), likewise is the mission of the Church. There for it orients it’s most sever punishments accordingly. Attacking the sacrament of reconcililation (for instance) which is required for the salvation of souls by reporting crimes confessed there to the police would merit automatic excommuncation. Otherwise

say to you, that even so there shall be joy in heaven upon one sinner that doth penance, more than upon ninety-nine just who need not penance.

(Luke 15:7)

 

[CMatt25]

I wouldn’t take what Bill says as official Church teaching… Some apologists go just a little too far trying to defend the Church. I would say remain honest, remain charitable but most of all remain informed.

Yeah I often wonder why Bill isn’t reigned in more than he is.

 

[kage_ar]

We don’t leave Jesus because of a handful of sinners.

 

[lufty]

I’m not so sure any of us are qualified to answer for what the preditors were thinking. Rest assured, they will be judged by the perfect judge. That should be enough for us.

That is not good enough. This kind of perversion needs to be stopped. By saying God will deal them the justice they deserve, and not actively protect innocent children…that’s turning a blind eye in my opinion.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

What keeps your regular Catholic going these day? Or how about those in RCIA or Inquiry as I am?

I find it disheartening that so little outrage from within the Catholic Community is present, nor are discussions regarding the Vatican’s lack of action to resolve this, and punish those Clergy that are guilty. Reading these forums, mostly I see allot of finger-pointing to the secular media for “attacking” the CC, yet many, if not most of these allegations on sexual abuse are a reality.

I for one have found it difficult to even consider attending Mass, or continuing with the Inquiry stage at this point, with so little (name removed by moderator)ut by the Catholic community present.

Hi Lufty,

It’s because we who have been Catholics for a long time already went through this a decade or so ago, or more. We learned about the abuse, got really angry, felt betrayed, and were happy to see the church reform itself, at least here in North America. So it’s old news, that the press seems to be dragging up just to cause a crisis. We’ve been there, done that, and the second time around it’s very annoying.

 

[crazzeto]

That is not good enough. This kind of perversion needs to be stopped. By saying God will deal them the justice they deserve, and not actively protect innocent children…that’s turning a blind eye in my opinion.

No one is suggesting any thing of the kind, but the fact remains many of the abusers are already dead. Others have already been defrocked…

 

[Joe_5859]

It’s Bill Donahue’s job to become indignant whenever the Church receives negative press. The Catholic League is not an official arm of the Church hierachy. He does a lot of good work in helping fight against anti-Catholicism in our culture, but you have to remember that he’s always in defensive mode. That’s just what he does.

Note, the abuse reports are getting worse, but the actual amount of abuse is getting much, much smaller. I think that’s why many Catholics have been on the defensive in the past month. There’s a lot of misinformation going on. This explosion of news coverage hasn’t been the result of some recent incident(s).

The CERC has gathered together many articles on the present crisis to help us sort through what is true and what is not:

catholiceducation.org/articles/media/me0097.htm

Please note that, even though many of us quickly jump into a defensive posture does not mean that we do not abhor the abuse that has happened. We do. We just don’t like seeing our Pope’s name dragged through the mud when he has quite literally done more to stop the abuse than any other person on this planet.

 

[Edwardjohn]

Hi Lufty,

It’s because we who have been Catholics for a long time already went through this a decade or so ago, or more. We learned about the abuse, got really angry, felt betrayed, and were happy to see the church reform itself, at least here in North America. So it’s old news, that the press seems to be dragging up just to cause a crisis. We’ve been there, done that, and the second time around it’s very annoying.

Thank you for putting it into words.