I am not sure where you get that ralphinal. I do not think it is possible. I think God gave us the canon he wanted. Absolutely I accept that by faith and absolutely I do not think that it was made infallible by a fallible group of people. Scripture itself I believe does not teach that.
So it would be an infallible list of infallible works?
If everybody is fallible, then the Bible cannot be infallible, since everyone who wrote in it was fallible (ie: prone to make errors), and the Pope who declared the canon of the Scriptures was fallible (ie: prone to make errors) - which means that not only might the list be wrong, but the contents of the books of the Bible could be wrong, too.
I am not sure. Not trying to be obtuse but I believe the Bible is infallible, if one wishes to call it a list…
I was waiting on this, becasue it always happens, the Catholic trying to argue me out of believing the Bible unless I do for the same reasons THEY do…If everybody is fallible, then the Bible cannot be infallible, since everyone who wrote in it was fallible (ie: prone to make errors), and the Pope who declared the canon of the Scriptures was fallible (ie: prone to make errors) - which means that not only might the list be wrong, but the contents of the books of the Bible could be wrong, too.
BUT, if the writers of the Scriptures were protected by the Holy Spirit with the charism of infallibility, and the Pope was also protected, then we can have an infallible (or rather, it would be more technically correct to say, inerrant) Bible.
But you don’t get a greater thing from a lesser thing. If everyone involved in putting the Bible together was fallible, then where does it get its inerrancy from?
No Catholic would want you not to believe in the Bible, but they would want you to think it through and know why you believe in the Bible.
Actually, I am not trying to do anything of the sort. My feeling on the matter is simple. The Scriptures themselves are without error in faith and morals. I also believe that what we see as the Bible is the Correct Bible, nothing left out that should be in and nothing in that should have been left out (not withstanding the Catholic/Orthodox/Protestant differences As there is no table of contents listed in there, the cannon had to be formulated at some time. Simply put, I believe that God made sure that men did it correctly.
Well, the Jack Chicks of the world are a negligible minority up here in Vermont.
Agree.
True, but that is a separate issue. The concept that the Church has, as you well know, is that the Holy Spirit protects her from making errors when teaching the Faith. That applies to the pope when he is speaking on matters of faith and morals. I know that that is not accepted by Protestants, but I do not see why God could not have insured the list to be correct.
I have thought it through.
The books were not first listed by a person considered to be a Pope. I do not believe the synods had that impact. I also will point out the canon was sent to several bishops for approval and does not indicate a Roman supremacy
Why do you think a Pope had the final say, where are you getting that from? I think I know what you are going to say but I am asking…Now, (and especially since you believe him to be absolutely wrong about absolutely everything else), how is it that the Pope got this one thing right? When he apparently can’t find the back of his head in the dark, with regard to any other issue of the faith?
The vast majority of what constitutes scripture is decided long before any council by people I would suggest do not have the same beliefs as present day Catholicism, it is a side conversation and being addressed presently in the Apologetics forum.
Most rational people do, I would say. In a lot of ways, the formation of the canon has more to do with tradition than authority. By the time it was fixed, around 400, it had more or less been established, as you mentioned.
True; the last three Councils tidied up the loose ends, and then the Pope promulgated the final list to the whole Church, so that everyone was (literally) reading from the same page.
Uh you mean this? This says nothing of the sort about a Pope…True; the last three Councils tidied up the loose ends, and then the Pope promulgated the final list to the whole Church, so that everyone was (literally) reading from the same page.
You pretty much hit the nail on the head from my viewpoint. Trace that chain back far enough and you’ll find Catholics who believe the Bible is the inspired and inerrant word of God because God tells us so through His Church, the Catholic Church.All Christians believe the Bible is the word of God because other Christians they consider credible say it is. Of course, that is what Catholics call Tradition and Church authority.