Why did God allow the Devil to exist?

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Cruxis117

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This is a question I was asked by a person, though I hadn’t had the chance to answer it. The point of this thread is to ask for any Catholic resources (Church documents, writings of the Saints, etc.). I am also interested in any answers you have. A part of me is starting to formulate an answer that involves Free Will, the love of God with the Cross, and so on. And then, a part of me already trusts the Church and is fine to let the matter go, the truth is the truth. But this person might ask me again, because this person wants to hang the damnation of souls on our Lord, so I want to see what answers there are. Thank you!
 
God is love and it would be contrary to his love to annihilate one of his creatures.
 
Hum… A very deep question. But it sounds like you are on the right track. Here are some additional things to consider. St. Augustine struggled with a similar topic, which in philosophy is known as the problem of evil. I would read his confessions Book VII, in particular page 65 and the relevant pages surrounding it. The following line holds a key to the answer you are looking for: “Therefore, if they shall be deprived of all good, they shall no longer be. So long therefore as they are, they are good: therefore whatsoever is, is good.” (page 65 of the online version, I will have the link at the bottom) In other words, to exist is better than not to exist at all.

Also, I would consult the Summa by St. Thomas Aquinas, in particular questions 63 and 64 of the First Part.

Both these books are available online:
St. Augustine’s Confessions:
sparks.eserver.org/books/augustineconfess.pdf

St. Thomas’ Summa: Part One:
newadvent.org/summa/1.htm
(note: the whole Summa is available online, I just directed you to the first part in which he mentions the Angels)

The answer to this question challenges my weak and selfish heart to grasp the immensity of God as Love and His love for all He created. After deep and prayerful reflection, it seems that the real question isn’t “Why does God allow the Devil to exist?” but rather, “Could God have ended the Devil’s existence and still be Love itself?”

“Who is like God?” St. Michael the Archangel, pray for us.
 
Why does God allow us to exist despite knowing that we would, and would continue, to sin against Him?
 
First, let’s look at good v. evil.

What is evil?

Evil is not a force in itself, it is a lack of something, a rejection of something.

Just like darkness is a lack of light.
Just like cold is a lack of heat.

Now we should look at who Satan was: the archangel Lucifer- Light-Bearer. Lucifer was the greatest of God’s creatures. He knew this and was proud of it. He thought he could do a better job than God and tried to replace Him. (A lot like Clu from Tron) He rejected the good, so the good was not in him. This lack of goodness is evil.

So the answer is this: God allows the Devil to exist because Lucifer had free choice, and he chose to be the Devil.
It is for the same reason that God allows us to exist and sin against Him: we have free will. Free will comes with the ability to make mistakes (which we all do).

So why are we saved but not Satan and the demons?

We have not seen God face to face. We do not know what we sin against. We cannot know what we sin against. We also have concupiscence. Satan didn’t have that. He chose to rebel against God without any kind of coercion or temptation. He knew exactly what he was rejecting, but we don’t.

Hope this helps.
 
devoutchristian said:
God is love and it would be contrary to his love to annihilate one of his creatures.
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What about the flood, when he annihilated almost all of his creatures?

How about sending his own Son to die?

Or Sodom?

Or the Tower of Babel?

Unfortunately, He does not seem to have any trouble annihilating when it suits His purpose. As far as the Bible is concerned, He has killed more beings than the Devil could ever dream of.

So, there must be another reason.
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
What about the flood, when he annihilated almost all of his creatures?

How about sending his own Son to die?

Or Sodom?

Or the Tower of Babel?
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Death is not the same as annihilation. In death, your soul goes to Heaven or Hell (or in the case of before Jesus’ ressurection, Bad Hell or Abraham’s Bosom). In annihilation, one ceases to exist. So God has never annihilated any one of His creation.
 
bzkoss236 said:
Why does God allow us to exist despite knowing that we would, and would continue, to sin against Him?
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Perhaps God can see all possible futures based on all possible decisions. This allows him to be both Omniscient, and for us to have Free Will.
 
teenphilo1 said:
First, let’s look at good v. evil.

What is evil?

Evil is not a force in itself, it is a lack of something, a rejection of something.

Just like darkness is a lack of light.
Just like cold is a lack of heat.

Now we should look at who Satan was: the archangel Lucifer- Light-Bearer. Lucifer was the greatest of God’s creatures. He knew this and was proud of it. He thought he could do a better job than God and tried to replace Him. (A lot like Clu from Tron) He rejected the good, so the good was not in him. This lack of goodness is evil.

So the answer is this: God allows the Devil to exist because Lucifer had free choice, and he chose to be the Devil.
It is for the same reason that God allows us to exist and sin against Him: we have free will. Free will comes with the ability to make mistakes (which we all do).

So why are we saved but not Satan and the demons?

We have not seen God face to face. We do not know what we sin against. We cannot know what we sin against. We also have concupiscence. Satan didn’t have that. He chose to rebel against God without any kind of coercion or temptation. He knew exactly what he was rejecting, but we don’t.

Hope this helps.
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This is how Angra Mainyu was explained to me. He represents the absence of Ahura Mazda.
 
SeekerDude said:
Perhaps God can see all possible futures based on all possible decisions. This allows him to be both Omniscient, and for us to have Free Will.
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Because He is omniscient, He still knows what choices we are going to make.
 
bzkoss236 said:
Because He is omniscient, He still knows what choices we are going to make.
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Perhaps. I am however, deeply uncomfortable with Calvinism.

Bear in mind, I’m not saying that’s what you’re saying. It’s just that that is where this logically takes me.

I think I prefer God to be a quantum physicist.
 
SeekerDude said:
Perhaps. I am however, deeply uncomfortable with Calvinism.

Bear in mind, I’m not saying that’s what you’re saying. It’s just that that is where this logically takes me.

I think I prefer God to be a quantum physicist.
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As do I. I’m just saying God can know something will happen without willing it to be that way given that we have free will. So, I’m not saying God made it to be that way, He just knows what’s going to happen. God also knows what would happen if we made a different decision.
 
bzkoss236 said:
As do I. I’m just saying God can know something will happen without willing it to be that way given that we have free will. So, I’m not saying God made it to be that way, He just knows what’s going to happen. God also knows what would happen if we made a different decision.
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I suppose you’re right.

It raises a whole new paradox, where Free Will stands, but God still knows everything.

I have, however, seen some evidence in the Bible against Omniscience.

It should be noted however, that I am still early in my Bible studies, and I’m looking at this whole thing with a skeptical, critical eye.

It’s not my intention to remain Catholic, but rather to hunt for God in Catholic territory. Hence, of course, “SeekerDude”
 
SeekerDude said:
I suppose you’re right.

It raises a whole new paradox, where Free Will stands, but God still knows everything.

I have, however, seen some evidence in the Bible against Omniscience.

It should be noted however, that I am still early in my Bible studies, and I’m looking at this whole thing with a skeptical, critical eye.

It’s not my intention to remain Catholic, but rather to hunt for God in Catholic territory. Hence, of course, “SeekerDude”
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I think it’s good to be a skeptic, because in your search you really go over things with a fine-toothed comb, so if you do come to believe, you believe it strongly.

So if you come to believe Catholic teaching, you don’t want to remain Catholic? Not sure I understand that part. I can understand searching for God in Catholic territory, like I searched for God in Protestant territory before coming back to Catholicism because I felt Catholicism seemed more biblical, IMO.
 
bzkoss236 said:
I think it’s good to be a skeptic, because in your search you really go over things with a fine-toothed comb, so if you do come to believe, you believe it strongly.

So if you come to believe Catholic teaching, you don’t want to remain Catholic? Not sure I understand that part. I can understand searching for God in Catholic territory, like I searched for God in Protestant territory before coming back to Catholicism because I felt Catholicism seemed more biblical, IMO.
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I realize this is a particularly large forum and that I will probably have to reiterate it several times, both in thread in in private message.

I was raised Catholic, confirmed and everything. I left the Church, and truth be told, I came back to it very reluctantly because I disagree with Rome on enough things.

What I consider my religion to be is “theist, with recognition of afterlife”

I am on a fairly recent spiritual journey with the intention of practicing as many religions as possible. I may revisit one or more religions more than once (like Catholicism). I started with Catholicism because it is familiar territory, and truth be told, even in my rejection of its theology and morality, I liked a lot of the customs and practices.

My intention is to hunt God relentlessly, until I catch him. Of course, this will only happen after my death, so I figure I’ll be stalking around in some dark woods for at least, hopefully, 5 decades (I am in my early 30s). I expect to take something away from each religion, even as I leave it.

What I expect to take away from Catholicism is forgiveness, as well as the recognition that people who have gone before me can be addressed and ask advice/intercession from (veneration of saints).

Aside from the fact that I’ve always had a soft spot for science, which demands a skeptical view point, the fact that I’m on a spiritual journey in the first place means that I have to put everything on a finely tuned scale.

I will note however, that it is very easy for me to meditate while praying the rosary in Latin. Possibly because Latin is not my primary language. 😉

Even when I move on from Catholicism, I may well maintain a presence on this forum, if I find that I have made enough worthwhile contacts. We shall see. I have given myself a deadline of a year from my first confession, which I expect to be this Saturday.
 
And by first confession, please read, “first confession since I was 12”

Among some of my graver sins will be taking Eucharist in a state of mortal sin (grandparent’s funeral, to keep up appearances, so as not to upset the living grandparent further) and accepting confirmation in a state of apostasy.

Also the fact that I’m bi and have acted on it and such.

Really I’ve done most of everything except kill someone, which is a line I will never cross in any religion.
 
SeekerDude said:
And by first confession, please read, “first confession since I was 12”

Among some of my graver sins will be taking Eucharist in a state of mortal sin (grandparent’s funeral, to keep up appearances, so as not to upset the living grandparent further) and accepting confirmation in a state of apostasy.

Also the fact that I’m bi and have acted on it and such.

Really I’ve done most of everything except kill someone, which is a line I will never cross in any religion.
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Two things:
  1. Going to Confession with the intent of “moving on from Catholicism” will only make things worse. Forgiveness includes actual repentance from sins and rejecting evil and living a Christian life, focused on Jesus Christ and involved with the Sacraments. If you go to Confession and confess your sins with the intention of doing them again, or with the intention to purposefully apostatize, then you’re damning yourself even more than before, because you’d be presuming the forgiveness of God while rejecting repentance and Christ.
  2. I would ask that this topic remain on the OP, and not on a discussion about your Spiritual Journey, please. This is a topic I’ve come to ask from other people because I wanted to see their resources or responses.
 
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