Why did people not get "zapped" when they touched Jesus?

  • Thread starter Thread starter margarete
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

margarete

Guest
I wasn’t sure where to post this question, here or apologetics.
In talking to a non-Catholic Christian friend, regarding the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Mother, we were talking about the “ark-bearer” in the OT who got “zapped” when he went to grab the Ark, when it was teetering. I was trying to draw a parallel with Mary’s Immaculate Conception. My friend argued that others touched Jesus without ill-effect, so why did Mary have to be Immaculately conceived?
Help!!!
Margarete (aka "in over my head!)
 
40.png
margarete:
I wasn’t sure where to post this question, here or apologetics.
In talking to a non-Catholic Christian friend, regarding the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Mother, we were talking about the “ark-bearer” in the OT who got “zapped” when he went to grab the Ark, when it was teetering. I was trying to draw a parallel with Mary’s Immaculate Conception. My friend argued that others touched Jesus without ill-effect, so why did Mary have to be Immaculately conceived?
Help!!!
Margarete (aka "in over my head!)
Click to expand...
Jesus is True God AND True Man. Many touched Him. The woman with the issue of blood did, and Our Lord knew power was gone out of him.
 
How could Jesus have carried out His ministry, if anyone who touched Him died?

In any case, Uzziah (the man who died when he touched the Ark) was acting against the instructions given by God for dealing with the Ark. Even if his intent was not wrong, he was disobedient to God’s commands regarding the Ark. On the other hand, God never gave any command forbidding others to touch Jesus of Nazareth.
 
40.png
margarete:
I wasn’t sure where to post this question, here or apologetics.
In talking to a non-Catholic Christian friend, regarding the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Mother, we were talking about the “ark-bearer” in the OT who got “zapped” when he went to grab the Ark, when it was teetering. I was trying to draw a parallel with Mary’s Immaculate Conception. My friend argued that others touched Jesus without ill-effect, so why did Mary have to be Immaculately conceived?
Help!!!
Margarete (aka "in over my head!)
Click to expand...
The reason Uzzah was struck dead was because he touched the Ark directly when God had instructed that it be carried by the priests with poles.

What this means in regards to Mary is that, like the Ark, Mary’s purity could be touched by no man. Mary being the New Ark of the Covenant means that no man could have sexual relations with her, which is why Joseph was going to divorce her quietly, not because he thought her an adulteress.

After she had accepted the Angel Gabriel’s proposal from God, the glory of God overshadowed her the way it did the first Ark of the Covenant, both engendering Christ and setting her aside for God alone, as the Ark was God’s alone. This is why she and Joseph never had sexual relations.
 
40.png
margarete:
why did Mary have to be Immaculately conceived?
Click to expand...
During His earthly ministry Jesus’ divinity and his sinless human nature were for the most part voluntarily hidden from the world. So, theoretically, Mary did not have to be immaculately conceived but it was altogether fitting that she should be because of the true dignity of the One she was to carry within her, just as it was altogether fitting to place the stone tablets of the Ten Commandments in a gold-covered ark simply because of their dignity apart from the fact that unauthorized people could get zapped if they touched it.
 
My friend argued that others touched Jesus without ill-effect, so why did Mary have to be Immaculately conceived?

That’s a strange argument. Kind of like, “Abraham Lincoln’s son Tad went to school, so why did Lincoln wear a beard?”

The two things have nothing to do with each other.

Ask your friend what he’s asking. Is he asking why the Ark of the New Testament, unlike the Ark of the OT, didn’t burn anyone who touched her? Or is he asking why Mary had to be immaculately conceived?

The OT ark contained the Tablets with the 10 Commandments. The NT Ark held our Lord. Big difference. (And I’ve never seen the contents of the OT ark heal anybody, have you?)
 

The passage in 2 Sam. 6 you have in mind, about the death of Uzzah (who is not be confused with Uzziah BTW, who was a king of Judah) treats holiness as a power which can kill those who do not come to holy things in the proper way. This kind of holiness is not moral in character - this is holiness thought of as being like electricity: as being a force, and not much else.​

Holiness is not always thought of as implying ethical goodness - gods could do all sorts of things which we, being Christians, consider immoral; not because they were immoral, but because they were divine beings; they were “not-human”; and this “not-humanness”, this status of being wholly different *from *man, is what holiness amounted to in the world in which much of the OT was written. The basic thing about being a god or being holy is, that one is set apart from all other things; one has nothing in common with them; what was not holy, was “profane” (pro fanum = “outside the temple” = not holy). So when a holy thing - like the Ark of the Covenant - came into contact with unholy people, trouble was the result. Sin was anything that disturbed the relationship of gods to men - a lie could so, but so could a flaw in the ritual of worship.

The way to avoid being struck down by the holiness of holy things, was to come properly prepared (if one was a priest) or to get the appropriate person to come between oneself and the dangerousness of the holiness of the holy thing or being; that’s what priests were for - they had immediate access to the holy gods, on behalf of the “profane”, “unclean” “not-holy” people; as long as they were properly prepared; otherwise even priests could be destroyed; like Nadab & Abihu, the sons of Aaron.

This is not Christian holiness, which is holiness as likeness to God. Christian holiness includes ethical likeness to God, & it goes beyond ethics. This is holiness as goodness. God remains “Wholly Other”, wholly different from created beings - but in Christ He has taken our nature to Himself, so that we can approach Him without being destroyed. The Israelites needed Moses to get between God & them, so that Moses could absorb the force of God’s Holiness. As Our Mediator, Jesus took the full force of the Righteous Wrath of God upon our sins - that is why we don’t need any Sacrifice but His.

As He was a man in every sense - apart from His sinlessness - He acted as one, and could be encountered as one. Only on exceptional occasions in His earthly life was there a hint that He was more than man; such as the Transfiguration.

It’s also important for us to appreciate that the revelation witnessed to in the Bible is gradual - that is one reason the notion of holiness taken for granted in 2 Sam. 6 is not the same in kind as the holiness of Jesus; there has been education by God of His People in the meantime. ##
 
"Mary’s purity could be touched by no man. "

Ah Della, sex in marriage is not a sin, nor is it impure.

I am sure, people touched Mary at the wedding. And, likely Elizabeth touched Mary when greeting each other too.

As for the guy in the old testament, he simply did not have permission from God to touch the ark. Jesus and Mary would have given their permission to be touched as a normal part of life.

Since, Mary is not God, there would be no fear of touching her.
 
Jesus couldn’t be human and be un-touchable. Would not work.

Wasn’t the ark kind of like a weapon or something, as well as the ark of the covenant? Or is that in that Indiana Jones movie?
 
shirleytowers said:
Jesus couldn’t be human and be un-touchable. Would not work.

Wasn’t the ark kind of like a weapon or something, as well as the ark of the covenant? Or is that in that Indiana Jones movie?
Click to expand...

It’s in the film - but not in the Bible. 🙂​

Neither are the quotations from Revelation in “The Omen” from the Bible either - they are all fake.

Lots of stuff people think is in the Bible, isn’t ##
 
Holy Moley!

I can’t believe anyone would even conceive of touching Mary in a sexual way, sheesh that is such an evil thought it is amazing anyone can even think of this.

Maybe you can help them relate like this, a nun sets herself aside for God and now to break that an want to have sexual relations with her would be a profane thing to do, since she has given herself to God. Of course you would be able to shake hands with her say hi and interact, but the use of her body is different.

In the same way Mary who is the New Testament Ark of the Covenant is set aside for God’s use. Once something or someone is set aside for God’s use to use it for something ordinary would be profane and evil.
Once in marriage a person is set aside for relations only with their spouse to break that is evil in a similar fashion. So Mary was set aside for God.

To think otherwise is to pretty much deny the incarnation. Jesus is God, not just a buddy a person born or half God half Man.
Touching Him is not the issue, people interacted with Him in normal ways except for certain exceptions.
Such as women touching Him after the resurrection, marriage, and Him giving authority on earth as God to men.

The real point is does your friend really believe in God and would submit to Him, or does he want to define God according to his own understanding, which is evil and putting man above God.

In Christ
Scylla
 
I like to think of it as a “live wire” in contact with God.

The Ark was a direct wire - exposed to God’s power.

It could only be carried with poles and by priests. When it was put in the Tabernacle Holy of Holies, only the High Priest could visit it.

Like a live wire - if you touch it you get zapped with the Power of God. Too much for any man to stand and live.

Christ is the “Incarnation” the enfleshment of the Living God. The “flesh” in this instance acts as an insulator.

Thus by looking at Christ we can see the face of God and still live.

The only other person to see the Face of God and live was Moses. After that happened he had to wear a veil to cover the change in his face.

Even Elijah covered his face when he knew God was passing by.

Remember, it was when the spear pierced Christ and exposed his Sacred Heart - that is when the Temple Veil ripped in two.

It is now in Christ that we can experience the Father. Eat his Flesh Drink, His Blood, look upon his face and Live.

tjp
 
One could say that someone did get zapped by Jesus, the woman with the hemmorrage. Okay, she was healed instead of being killed, but Jesus notice the power go out of him; that sounds like being “zapped” to me.

And if anyone had dared to touch the New Ark in a sexual way I have no doubt they would have been smote not unlike Onan.
 
I have been reading the post of this threads and something struck me (as opposed to zapped me). There is one element common to both stories. That element is “Faith”.

Uzzah, lacking faith, that is the total trust in God’s word’s and commandments, acted as he did and was struck down. He lacked faith.

The women with the hemmorage, on the other hand, touched Jesus because of her faith in Christ. She was awarded for her faith not only by being healed but set up by Christ as an example to all perople for all time.

It was all a question of “Faith”.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top