Why didn't God create us as solely spiritual beings?

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Why didn’t God create us as just spiritual beings? Why did he give us bodies which fall into death? Why not just create us as spiritual beings in heaven with him? Why did he give us all an earthly journey before we gain passage into his Kingdom?
 
I guess another way of rewording all of my quandaries is why is our earthly pilgrimage necessary?
 
Why didn’t God create us as just spiritual beings? Why did he give us bodies which fall into death? Why not just create us as spiritual beings in heaven with him? Why did he give us all an earthly journey before we gain passage into his Kingdom?
Adam made that decision.
Genesis 2 ** [7] And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.**
Adam was perfect and was like God until he was disobedient. It’s best not to question God’s motives.
 
Well, its said because God did not want a bunch of ‘mindless robots’ who are devoted to him purely because they were created that way, but strangely, if we believe what we are taught about heaven, it appears heaven is full of souls, people that do all think the same (mindless robots…?), unless our free will extends into the afterlife, that I dont know.
 
Well, its said because God did not want a bunch of ‘mindless robots’ who are devoted to him purely because they were created that way, but strangely, if we believe what we are taught about heaven, it appears heaven is full of souls, people that do all think the same (mindless robots…?), unless our free will extends into the afterlife, that I dont know.
Our free will does extend into the afterlife. But, it’s been fully formed, and the souls in Hell are beyond changing their minds. Their decisions have been made, and the souls will not want to change their minds. If one is admitted into Heaven, one will want to be with God forever. If one has chosen Hell, one will not ever want to be with God.
 
God already has an innumerable host of pure spirits around Him.

He gave you a body so that you would be somebody!

And, in Life Everlasting, you will indeed be somebody!

ICXC NIKA!
 
Wait, so he didn’t want to create us as mindless robots, but he created a system of eternal torment if we don’t go along of our own free will? Duress is not free will?

If we’re going to throw out the standard answers like “it’s a mystery” and “don’t question God’s motives”, then how are we helping each other wrap our minds around the issues? Unlike the Protestants and the Eastern religions, the Catholic tradition holds the view that reason is one of the greatest tools in our toolbox.

Angels don’t have bodies, does that mean they are mindless robots?
 
Adam made that decision.
Genesis 2 ** [7] And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.**
Adam was perfect and was like God until he was disobedient.
Are you saying Adam made the decision to be created with a physical body? I don’t see how that follows from the passage you cite. Sounds to me like Adam didn’t decide anything until AFTER he became an animated lump of clay. ?]

Why couldn’t there just be an infinite series of layers of anges? Put us on the position right below cherubim…
 
I guess another way of rewording all of my quandaries is why is our earthly pilgrimage necessary?
Because God deemed it worthwhile that humankind should come to know good and evil, for themselves, rather than simply wiping them out at the beginning, with the Original Sin, the first act of man’s disobedience of God. With that experience, together with the revelation of God’s existence, trustworthiness, goodness, and love wrought by Christ’s Incarnation and Atonement, we may learn to turn, like Prodigals, back to God in faith, ultimately coming to love Him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength, which fulfills our justice. It’s all about our wills. Adam willed to sin. We must learn why he was wrong.
 
Because God deemed it worthwhile that humankind should come to know good and evil, for themselves, rather than simply wiping them out at the beginning, with the Original Sin, the first act of man’s disobedience of God. With that experience, together with the revelation of God’s existence, trustworthiness, goodness, and love wrought by Christ’s Incarnation and Atonement, we may learn to turn, like Prodigals, back to God in faith, ultimately coming to love Him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength, which fulfills our justice. It’s all about our wills. Adam willed to sin. We must learn why he was wrong.
That seems like a surprising reading of the story. If God created us as embodied for the sake of letting us come to know good and evil for ourselves, then why forbid eating from the tree that would allow us to know good and evil??
 
That seems like a surprising reading of the story. If God created us as embodied for the sake of letting us come to know good and evil for ourselves, then why forbid eating from the tree that would allow us to know good and evil??
He didn’t create man so that we would come to know good and evil for ourselves. Rather, He created man* knowing *that we would come to know good and evil for ourselves-by Adam’s choice-and still deemed it worthwhile to create us. God knows the beginning from the end in its “immediacy”, as the Caterchism puts it, while our choices are made over time, from our finite perspective.
 
He didn’t create man so that we would come to know good and evil for ourselves. Rather, He created man* knowing *that we would come to know good and evil for ourselves-by Adam’s choice-and still deemed it worthwhile to create us. God knows the beginning from the end in its “immediacy”, as the Caterchism puts it, while our choices are made over time, from our finite perspective.
The angels were capable of knowing good and evil without bodies, though, right?
 
He didn’t create man so that we would come to know good and evil for ourselves. Rather, He created man* knowing *that we would come to know good and evil for ourselves-by Adam’s choice-and still deemed it worthwhile to create us. God knows the beginning from the end in its “immediacy”, as the Caterchism puts it, while our choices are made over time, from our finite perspective.
So it was not an intended result? God saw what would happen, saw that it was good, but it was still unintentional? It was good but not willed as the end by God?
 
So it was not an intended result? God saw what would happen, saw that it was good, but it was still unintentional? It was good but not willed as the end by God?
It wasn’t good that Adam sinned. But God knew lemons were coming and already had a recipe for really good lemonade. 🙂
 
The angels were capable of knowing good and evil without bodies, though, right?
Sorry, I wasn’t focusing on the bodily aspect of the question, just on the reason for our pilgrimage here. I don’t know exactly why the plight of angels and men are different. But, in this world, there are immediate and very real consequences to our actions; we’re physcially able to do harm, and we’re physically able to do good, and so good and evil are both known, experientally, viscerally, in a way that angels perhaps cannot know them. Our roles and fates are meant to be different-man is tested over time-and in this world God is “hidden” from us; for all we know, from our perspective here, the world is strictly physical/natural-no supernatural reality in sight; we’re very free in this situation to determine our own fates, our own way, to believe in and follow God or not, to cause harm or good. And with the specter of death always present, that trust is tested even more powerfully. Do we believe in, trust, and place our hope in God, or do we simply eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die, with little or not concern with justice? I believe that, due to man’s testing in a life such as this one, where pain and suffering and shame and the whole mess of life are inevitable, where choices to love or hate or remain somewhere inbetween confront us daily, man has the potential to become increasingly, truly, just-refined to a state more elevated than the angels. It’s a hard life-designed to change us-and we may well remember for eternity-if only in hindsight- those very experiences that helped motivate us to draw nearer and nearer to righteousness, nearer and nearer to God.
 
Oh, man. Saying that we could come to know the good more and become higher than the angels when they are in the presence of God looking upon Him is like saying we could learn physics better from wandering around in the woods than from taking classes and working as lab assistants with a Nobel-prize-winning team of scientists in a world-class research facility.
 
Oh, man. Saying that we could come to know the good more and become higher than the angels when they are in the presence of God looking upon Him is like saying we could learn physics better from wandering around in the woods than from taking classes and working as lab assistants with a Nobel-prize-winning team of scientists in a world-class research facility.
Well, it’s what I suspect to be true-and others have held this opinion as well. First of all man is likewise intended to be in the presence of God. And man is intended to be divinized, in fact. St. Athanasius tells us, “The Son of God became man, that we might become god”. Additionally man is stretched more, has to endure more, suffer more, strive more, persevere more.

And the Catechism teaches:
412 But why did God not prevent the first man from sinning? St. Leo the Great responds, "Christ’s inexpressible grace gave us blessings better than those the demon’s envy had taken away."307 And St. Thomas Aquinas wrote, "There is nothing to prevent human nature’s being raised up to something greater, even after sin; God permits evil in order to draw forth some greater good. Thus St. Paul says, ‘Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more’; and the Exsultet sings, ‘O happy fault,. . . which gained for us so great a Redeemer!’"308

And in 1 Cor 6:3 St Paul asks:"Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!"
 
Supposedly, everything in God’s plan is about love. I have no way to reconcile that with what I am about to say, but perhaps God just wanted to create some beings embedded in time. How are time and love related? I really don’t know, but that’s my impression since that seems to be one of the crucial differences between ourselves and the angels.
 
Supposedly, everything in God’s plan is about love. I have no way to reconcile that with what I am about to say, but perhaps God just wanted to create some beings embedded in time. How are time and love related? I really don’t know, but that’s my impression since that seems to be one of the crucial differences between ourselves and the angels.
Trent taught that man can actually* grow* in the justice received at Baptism-our initial justification where faith, hope, and love are infused -even though nothing stands in the way of his entering heaven if he were to immediately die in that cleansed and restored state. I think the Parable of the Talents sheds light on this truth. And our justice is* defined* by love, which is why the greatest commandments are what they are. So, how about this: In this life, and into purgatory in the next life if necessary, we have the opportunity, via experience, time, revelation, and grace, to struggle and grow in our capacity to choose good over evil, ultimately in our capacity to love. We have the possibility to grow in love, transforming us more and more nearly into the image of God.
 
Supposedly, everything in God’s plan is about love. I have no way to reconcile that with what I am about to say, but perhaps God just wanted to create some beings embedded in time. How are time and love related? I really don’t know, but that’s my impression since that seems to be one of the crucial differences between ourselves and the angels.
Angels also live in time, inasmuch as they began existence at a point in time. They did not always exist.

However, the OP poses a very intriguing question; why are we enfleshed? What was God’s purpose in making us creatures of both body and soul? Why not just souls? We could be just souls and have free will.

But would we be like angels if we were just souls? Would we have united intellects and wills, as they do, so that a choice for good or evil, once made, would be irreversible? If matter is the “preventive factor” of such things as irrevocable decisionmaking, or even direct infusion of knowledge from God, then one might ask what is the point of imposing the limitations of matter on us?

We can’t know the Mind of God, of course, so we don’t really know why God wanted us to have bodies. But we can speculate, and it’s interesting to do it. Possibly God’s love is such that He wants to forgive transgressions. Once an angel has made a decision there’s no forgiveness involved because the angel’s decision is irrevocable. God does not forgive angels because the fallen ones won’t accept it. But we can, and we do. His love for fallen angels is always unrequited, but with us, we can accept it notwithstanding our having previously rejected it.

But let’s assume for a moment that a spiritual being can change its mind. Then why bodies? Well, quite possibly God loves matter. What we know about matter is severely limited. We don’t even know what was “there” before the Big Bang, and it appears we can’t know. We can’t trace anything back before it because it changed everything, or so the physicists tell us.

We can think, well, perhaps God loves the fact that from congealed energy in the form of cosmic dust, His plan was (among other things) for it to eventually form a juicy pear. And since angels don’t eat juicy pears and can’t directly and in a material way, enjoy a juicy pear, then perhaps God wanted a creature that could. Matter enjoying matter so artfully constructed that it would delight.

Angels, no doubt, can see the atomic structure of a pear and understand it intellectually in a way we never will. But that angel still can’t bite into it and experience it materially. We can.

And possibly, in the beginning, God made us so we would enjoy all things material as well as spiritual, and perhaps we did. But we chose (and still choose) to decide for ourselves. “I don’t like brussel’s sprouts and won’t eat them despite the fact that they’re good for me. I’m going to eat all of this sugar despite the fact that it may hasten my death. I’ll choose it anyway.” We do that.

Perhaps before the fall, we ate the brussells sprouts and found them admirable precisely because they were there and were edible and we knew directly that God meant for us to eat them. Perhaps we liked sugary pears better but ate the brussells sprouts anyway because it was part of God’s Providence that we would do so and be satisfied whether we were eating brussells sprouts or pears.

I think if we knew why God created matter at all, we might know why he made us composite creatures. But since we don’t know the first, we don’t know the second.
All we can do is guess at it.

(Oh yes. No offense to those who like brussels sprouts. I hate them myself, but do not claim that no one should. I just used them as an example.)
 
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