Why do Catholics depict God?

[Nita]

Of the thousands of words in the Bible there is no mention or instruction ,( from God) in relation to his worship , to make any kind of image .There are countless types or figures of Christ in the OT .

Even in regards the Temple at Jerusalem,Jesus showed us : It too was a picture or a representation,more meaningful than words alone (John2:19)
…

As you note, God Himself used images to visibly represent the invisible. (Temple a representation of heaven)

God also used visible means to represent His presence to the Jews:
Cloud (Ex. 13, 19, 24, …)
Fire (Ex. 13:22)
Thunder & lightning (Ex. 19, 20)
Dove (Luke 3:22)

There is nothing wrong with images as long as one does not confuse the image with the reality ----- as long as one does not consider the image to be a god and worship it. That is when it becomes idolatry, which is what God forbade.

Ex. 20:4-5 "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not* bow down to them or serve them**;
Deut. 4:16-19 …you be drawn away and worship them and serve them, …
Deut. 5:8-9 … you shall not bow down to them or serve them; …*

 

[Bernard_Lyons]

As you note, God Himself used images to visibly represent the invisible. (Temple a representation of heaven)

God also used visible means to represent His presence to the Jews:
Cloud (Ex. 13, 19, 24, …)
Fire (Ex. 13:22)
Thunder & lightning (Ex. 19, 20)
Dove (Luke 3:22)

There is nothing wrong with images as long as one does not confuse the image with the reality ----- as long as one does not consider the image to be a god and worship it. That is when it becomes idolatry, which is what God forbade.

Ex. 20:4-5 "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not* bow down to them or serve them***;
Deut. 4:16-19 …you be drawn away and worship them and serve them, …
Deut. 5:8-9 … you shall not bow down to them or serve them; …

Nita,as you know,Moses was instructed directly from the Eternal God,in regards making the "fiery serpent " ,and set it upon a pole(Numbers 21:8) another spectacular lesson in regards Christ’s cross.I am sure you would agree.

But when Aaron ( in whose loins where the levitical priesthood) took it upon himself ,( to aid worship ) to make representations of Deity; you also know the consequences.
Every instance of imagery ( in scripture) is directly by God’s instruction alone.

You may extend ( indefinitely) the same authority ,past the close of scripture; but I don’t believe you can show this practice in the word of God alone.

 

[EIF5A]

I think they actually worshipped the cows. Like how the Egyptians worshipped.

Which is not the same as representing God as a bovine creature. Because that is silly and ridiculous.

No Catholic believes a statue or icon is who they represent. It’s a visual reminder that depicts important theological and historical aspects of said person. (Sometimes they’re ornate and made with gold to reflect sanctity and holiness.)

 

[Nita]

Nita,as you know,Moses was instructed directly from the Eternal God,in regards making the "fiery serpent " ,and set it upon a pole(Numbers 21:8) another spectacular lesson in regards Christ’s cross.I am sure you would agree.

But when Aaron ( in whose loins where the levitical priesthood) took it upon himself ,( to aid worship ) to make representations of Deity; you also know the consequences.
Every instance of imagery ( in scripture) is directly by God’s instruction alone.

You may extend ( indefinitely) the same authority ,past the close of scripture; but I don’t believe you can show this practice in the word of God alone.

As EIF5A said - and I’m sure you’re also well aware - the golden calf was in no way meant to be an image of the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob - God almighty whom Moses had gone atop the mountain to speak with.

Exodus 32:1 When the people saw that Moses delayed to come down from the mountain, the people gathered themselves together to Aaron, and said to him, "Up, make us gods, who shall go before us;

And Aaron didn’t do it “to aid worship”, he did it because the people demanded it.

 

[mikekle]

In primitive times, people made objects that they said WERE gods. They were sculptures of beasts, snakes, a golden calf. People bowed down to these saying that the images were gods.

God found this offensive, of course, because they were not God. To us Catholics, it is quite different to have a statue or picture that reminds us of Christ, that we know is not God, and using it to focus our prayers.

I have gone into some other churches. No religious art whatsoever was permitted, not even if it was in the interest of helping people worship the one true God.

We believe images are useful for teaching children, adults, the illiterate, as I have explained. We Catholics, even children, are taught that these images are of Jesus but NOT Jesus. Even now, I find all these statues and pictures helpful.

It’s a little like having a picture of your mother in your wallet. You know this isn’t your mother, but it is a reminder, helps you to better remember her.

We do not consider images of Jesus to be idolatry, because they are not. We are not worshipping these images, but God. Even small children will be able to tell you this. To say we are worshipping these images is to falsely accuse us, and false accusation is a sin in and of itself.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=685111

I understand the difference between actually worshiping God and worshiping an idol or image, I get that, but I dont understand why one of the 10 commandments were worded like it was…" Thous shalt not have any graven images of Heaven or below". When I read this, I immediately think it is wrong to have ANY statues of any person related to Heaven or Hell, like Lucifer, or God.

My point is, if God actually encouraged us to have statues and paintings of Heaven beings, why wasnt this commandment more like…“Thou shalt not worship any graven image of Heaven or below”, but the real commandment just says thou shalt not HAVE…?

I mean, trying to split hairs about worshiping a statue or God himself is useless, we all know its wrong to worship a statue, and manipulating the meaning of certain statements kinda seems a bit like justifying the use of statues and paintings.

But in the end, we are taking the CCs word for it, we dont TRULY know how God feels about this, as no one has asked him that I know of, I hope we are doing the right thing though!

 

[Nita]

I understand the difference between actually worshiping God and worshiping an idol or image, I get that, but I dont understand why one of the 10 commandments were worded like it was…" Thous shalt not have any graven images of Heaven or below". When I read this, I immediately think it is wrong to have ANY statues of any person related to Heaven or Hell, like Lucifer, or God.

My point is, if God actually encouraged us to have statues and paintings of Heaven beings, why wasnt this commandment more like…“Thou shalt not worship any graven image of Heaven or below”, but the real commandment just says thou shalt not HAVE…?

!

You must not have actually looked up the Biblical texts.

Ex. 20:4-5 "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; …

Lev 26:1 "You shall make for yourselves no idols and erect no graven image or pillar, and you shall not set up a figured stone in your land, to bow down to them; for I am the LORD your God.

Deut 4:16-19 beware lest you act corruptly by making a graven image for yourselves,in the form of any figure, … lest you lift up your eyes to heaven, and when you see thesun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, you be drawn away and worship them and serve them, …

Deut 5:8-9 "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them;…

 

[EIF5A]

That would mean the iconoclasts were right over a thousand years ago. But they lost. Not sure the Holy Spirit would abandon the Church to practice heretical things…

IMHO, God allows images because humans are limited, easily distracted, cannot contain fullness of truth in its entirety, etc, so visible markers are allowed to lead to spiritual growth and understanding. I mean, we do have a material aspect to our existence…

It’s like a small child drawing a picture of his family. He knows the pictures are not literally his mother and father and brother and sister. They’re mostly terrible representations and look nothing like the real people. But it reflects the joy the child feels, usually with a bright yellow sun in the upper right corner.

Perhaps that is how God feels about our feeble attempts to visually represent what is charitable, victorious, virtuous, joyous, and holy.

 

[mikekle]

That would mean the iconoclasts were right over a thousand years ago. But they lost. Not sure the Holy Spirit would abandon the Church to practice heretical things…

IMHO, God allows images because humans are limited, easily distracted, cannot contain fullness of truth in its entirety, etc, so visible markers are allowed to lead to spiritual growth and understanding. I mean, we do have a material aspect to our existence…

It’s like a small child drawing a picture of his family. He knows the pictures are not literally his mother and father and brother and sister. They’re mostly terrible representations and look nothing like the real people. But it reflects the joy the child feels, usually with a bright yellow sun in the upper right corner.

Perhaps that is how God feels about our feeble attempts to visually represent what is charitable, victorious, virtuous, joyous, and holy.

No, God was quite clear on this… "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above,

That says NO ONE should make ANY graven (carved or sculpted) images…for any reason.Sure, it goes on to say we are also not to worship them, but the very first part says, we shall not even create them.

 

[davidv]

No, God was quite clear on this… "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above,

That says NO ONE should make ANY graven (carved or sculpted) images…for any reason.Sure, it goes on to say we are also not to worship them, but the very first part says, we shall not even create them.

It appears that the meaning of “graven image” is not properly understood. Given that Moses was commanded to create an image of the seraph, it cannot mean all images.

 

[FCEGM]

The reason we Catholics truly have honor for things we can see and feel, etc., has to do with the Incarnation; Catholicism understands and appreciates the reality of the Incarnation, whereas Protestantism merely pays it lip service without truly appreciating what it means for God to have become Man; as St. Paul says of Christ: “He is the visible image of the invisible God; and so in seeing Him we are caught up in love for the God we cannot see.”

This situation (the Incarnation) changes everything. It shows that the New Covenant in Christ is different from God’s Covenant with Israel. In the Christian Covenant, we have Emmanuel (“God-with-us”), and, therefore, not only Christ’s Incarnation reflects the glory of the Father, but also the Church - the extension of Christ’s Incarnation (i.e., the Body of Christ) - reflects God’s glory. Thus Mary and the other Saints who reflect Christ, thereby reflect the Father’s glory. And so, images of Christ and the Saints are at the service of this incarnational glory of God; and the law against “graven images” is turned against itself in Christ.

Under the Old Law the Israelites were not to make graven images because no earthly creation could reflect the glory of God. Yet, after the Incarnation, this is possible, but only in Christ and in His Saints - those who are part of His Body.

So, the key to understanding Catholic iconography is to appreciate the reality of Christ’s Incarnation. In rejecting the legitimacy of icons and other religious images, the Protestant world comes very close to rejecting the Incarnation Itself. Indeed, Christ became FLESH in order to save FLESH (us). If everything is merely spiritual, why did Jesus need to come in the flesh at all??

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[Bernard_Lyons]

As EIF5A said - and I’m sure you’re also well aware - the golden calf was in no way meant to be an image of the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob - God almighty whom Moses had gone atop the mountain to speak with.

Exodus 32:1 When the people saw that Moses delayed to come down from the mountain, the people gathered themselves together to Aaron, and said to him, "Up, make us gods, who shall go before us;

And Aaron didn’t do it “to aid worship”, he did it because the people demanded it.

Yes Nita ,because of their impatience ,the people demanded.But what did they demand ?
(Verse1) " gods that shall go before us"

Aaron ,wishing still to honour ( as he thought) the LORD, (verse 4) “after he had made a molten calf:and they said,These be thy gods,O Israel,which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt”

Notice that they desired gods ( plural) but Aaron made “a”(singular) molten calf"

Even they of a sort ,still desired some sense of orthodoxy: " and they said,These be thy Gods ,O Israel ,which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt"

Aaron again hoping to aid their these worship as well as maintain there established revealed,"religious "practice,

“And when Aaron saw it,he built an altar before it,and Aaron made proclamation,and said ,To morrow is a feast to the LORD”

That is the (singular ) LORD.

And what of the ( singular ) “calf” : did this not ,itself seek to guide into truth already established?

Luke 15:23 “And bring hither the fated calf ,and kill it ;and let us eat ,and be merry”(see also Genesis 18:7)

The presence then of aids to worship is for me a denial of the invisible ( or absent)God: men ,innately ,must have something visible .

 

[mikekle]

It appears that the meaning of “graven image” is not properly understood. Given that Moses was commanded to create an image of the seraph, it cannot mean all images.

I guess its one of those things, kinda like we all know one of the 10 commandments tell us not to kill, BUT in many OT verses, God is instructing his faithful to go out and kill, and in some cases, they would be punished if they did not follow his orders, so Im assuming we should follow the 10 commandments…EXCEPT when God tells us differently, like he did with Moses.