Why do modern church buildings have to be so ugly?

[SenorSalsa]

You answered your question yourself.

The site is not that up to date. The local TV made a long report on its progress and it can be better appreciated. Check these links out:

• Slides
• Videos
  

first of all, man that slide has a lot of photos.

secondly, that is one enormas Corpus. Unfortunately i dont think they had a slide that showed it up(admitedly, i gave up around slide 100)

third, i love how that Church is definately of modern archetecture, but still looks beautiful. It is a callback to older Cathedral designs, without directly immitating them.

fourth, the Sanctuary looked very revrent, with a lot of stained glass and probably statues. It did not have the blandness that many other newer Churches sometimes have

 

[JimR-OCDS]

We presently have a bishop trimming our diocese down to ONE HALF of the number of churches. What we have found, is that he is closing the established traditional-architecture churches which have been around a long time and have no debt, in order to keep open the modern churches steeped in debt…so what we are to be left with are the modern structures lacking traditional Catholic beauty to pay down their debt on the backs of traditional Catholic structures/communities. What’s so sad is although the debt may be brought down, the numbers of practicing Catholics will drop with it. Many old people tied to their communities will not drive to the “newly assigned” parishes.

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We had the opposite in the Arch Dioceses of Boston. The modern style churches, were usually in the more affluent areas of the dioceses, and had no debt. People were shocked when Cardinal O’Malley chose the modern debt free church to close, over the old in the red, church.

The logic was sound economics and good stewardship, in the Church’s mission to serve the poor.

The Churches in the poorer areas, which were the old style architecture, everyone in in the town could get to them. The newer suburbia located churches, only those who lived there or could drive, could get to those churches.

Also, real-estate value, the modern church property got more, than the old style church, in an less lucrative area.

So, the new churches were closed and the older one’s stayed open.

That all being said, I don’t think architecture played any role, but economics and stewardship, did.

In my own dioceses of Worcester, we don’t have many modern style churches, so, the parishes that are closing, are going to cost lots of money to tear down.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Nah, best possible light doesn’t work…I’m in a suburban area, 99% of the diocese is suburban with one real “inner city,” so that doesn’t wash. It’s just a bishop who likes community touchy-feely play lots of guitar music and if he could get away with it, have campfires in the middle of our ugly structures. Preference here is to avoid any use whatsoever of Latin or Greek, consider the Mass a meal, and get rid of anything that even remotely sounds, looks or smells like traditional Catholicism. Goal is to have paid laity leading parishes with 40+ ministries and everybody being one big happy family.

But again, these bishops are getting old so there is hope on the horizon…and I too have a very difficult time not fantasizing about ways this somehow ends before mandatory retirement.

However, there are oases (is that plural for oasis?) in surrounding diocese, including a wonderful hermitage in the northern region of our state where I can go for solace.

You show a disrespect for the Bishops, because in your previous post, they’re the Vatican II Bishops and for this, they are somehow flawed. Guess what, they’re not.

Most were only in the seminary just before Vatican II was implemented.

The Bishops who participated in Vatican II, were of the WWI vintage.

Jim

 

[GladCatholic]

You show a disrespect for the Bishops, because in your previous post, they’re the Vatican II Bishops and for this, they are somehow flawed. Guess what, they’re not.

My bishop was ordained in 1964. He is plumb vatican II and everyone here knows it. It’s only 4 years until we’re released from his bondage.

Glad

 

[JimR-OCDS]

My bishop was ordained in 1964. He is plumb vatican II and everyone here knows it. It’s only 4 years until we’re released from his bondage.

Glad

1964 he was ordained to the priesthood, which means he went through a pre-Vatican II formation in the seminary.

Vatican II was opened in 1962 and closed in 1965. However, it took years before it would be implemented, mostly in the 70’s.

That all said, your disrespect for your Bishop, is disturbing.

Jim

 

[Augustine]

The logic was sound economics and good stewardship, in the Church’s mission to serve the poor.

Do you have any perspective on whether attendance was a factor in choosing the parishes to close too?

TIA

 

[Augustine]

Indeed, there’s not an opposition between reverent, sacred architecture and modern architecture.

A couple of years ago, a parish nearby inaugurated its new church with a fantastic architecture, recalling a bit the missions: news8austin.com/shared/video/video_pop.asp?destlist=40122. It’s probably no surprise that it’s one of the few churches in my area where daily confession is available. How many times I did my penance in front of one of those stained-glass windows, statues and altar!

It’s more than making a building different from others. The Church has an architectonic language developed over the centuries and, unless it’s used properly, it’ll be just a gathering space to socialize. This language helps the faithful to worship, by truly conveying the sacred purpose of the building, setting it truly as a house of God.

 

[ivory]

I’d imagine that it wouldn’t matter what the church looks like, as long as it’s a place were you can attend Mass and praise God.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Do you have any perspective on whether attendance was a factor in choosing the parishes to close too?

TIA

Attendance is considered, but they also know, if you close one parish and transfer people to the one down the street, attendence becomes a non-issue.

Jim

 

[Augustine]

I’d imagine that it wouldn’t matter what the church looks like, as long as it’s a place were you can attend Mass and praise God.

We are material beings too and it’s just better when the building is conducive to the worship of God. That’s why churches are not theaters… at least Catholic churches aren’t.

 

[Augustine]

Attendance is considered, but they also know, if you close one parish and transfer people to the one down the street, attendence becomes a non-issue.

I was actually thinking if the parishes closed were the ones with low attendance, affluence and all…

 

[GladCatholic]

That all said, your disrespect for your Bishop, is disturbing.

Jim

[edited–unkind remark] I’ll respect the position, but I don’t have to agree with anything he’s doing. I take it you’re one of the ones who respected the Bishops who took no action in any of the scandal incidents too.

One never has to earn my respect; it’s granted from day one. But it’s most definitely possible to earn loss of my respect, which is what he’s done.

 

[GladCatholic]

I was actually thinking if the parishes closed were the ones with low attendance, affluence and all…

The parishes closing in our diocese for the most part are with the highest attendance. Funneling them in to the parishes with the lowest attendance (and I’m talking percentages and not seating) and highest debt. Which also tend to be the ugliest and most modern. Wonder why they’re empty? They don’t even look Catholic. I think that’s what was behind the ugly modern architecture–if you don’t make it look Catholic, maybe the protestants will come.

 

[Mark_Robert]

All the mystique is gone in modern Catholic churches. They are painfully non-ornate. They look more like convention halls than churches. Where are the beautiful crucifixes, icons and statues? No wonder people have lost a sense of transcendence and the divine. There’s nothing to inspire one’s vision and senses toward the higher truths. We need visual aids because we are not just spirit but material beings. You could say that these things are sacramentals insofar as they lift the mind and heart to God.

 

[Augustine]

They don’t even look Catholic. I think that’s what was behind the ugly modern architecture–if you don’t make it look Catholic, maybe the protestants will come.

Or maybe because it’s easier to sell it to them when the faithful pack.

 

[PatrickJT914]

Hi Augustine,

Did you get a chance to see my second post to you? It’s Post # 40. What do think of it?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

[edited–unkind remark] I take it you’re one of the ones who respected the Bishops who took no action in any of the scandal incidents too.
.

Judgmental remark, uncalled for and inaccurate both on the part of the Bishops and myself.

Jim

 

[GladCatholic]

Uh okay, the American bishops are the epitome of Catholic orthodoxy and tradition. The modern architecture we are bombarded with can only draw our hearts and minds to God and it is so powerful, that is why they are empty.

Thank you for opening my eyes.

Glad

 

[mangy_dog]

I’ve recently seen a couple of truly spectacular old Catholic churches in Chicago–built at the turn of the last century, or before. Their beauty is breathtaking. So why, I wonder, when they build a new church these days, do they make it so plain and ugly? I realize that labor and materials were less expensive in the old days, but the parishioners were not affluent. They still managed to put up beautiful churches for the glory of God. These new churches, instead of lifting the mind and heart to God, oppress the spirit.

We are in a spiritual war!

Often times we catholics try to either do nothing or do too much and end up being frustrated especially with our loved ones - the ones closest to us.

Forget about trying to make your husband do this or that -…you do the basic catholic things really really well.

Pray the Rosary, daily
Go to Confession & Communion, weekly
Don’t hide your catholicism: Make the Sign of the Cross everytime you drive past a catholic church; when eating in public, pray before the meal and make the Sign of the Cross.

Love and serve the Lord and be a witness onto your husband, without argument, without contention.

Do these basic things really well and he’ll come around, even if its out of curiosity or at first mockingly… be prepared to give a charitable, catholic answer - without being litigious or combative.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[Augustine]

Patrick,

I couldn’t agree more. I have nothing to add and don’t even get me started on government-imposed higher cost-of-living!