Why do we judge people?

[Zerg]

It is part of the unfavorable parts of ourselves that we tend to judge others on a myriad of things, clothes, education level, etc.

A few weeks ago, my conscience challenged me to accept the beautiful homily of a Protestant female minister. It was a streamed mass on Women’s day (historic public holiday where I live) where the Jesuit priest invited this minister to give a sermon in which she preached on the first and second readings and the holy Gospel.

The former was about Elijah’s fear in awaiting God’s voice and hearing it in the calm of a wind after a hurricane and an earthquake, the gist of which was linked to the gospel where the disciplines traveling with Jesus on a boat at about 3am were confronted by a vicious storm, which Jesus calmed down and diminished it. The main point that I took away from the sermon was that in our lives we have 3am moments of crisis or anxiety and are anxious to hear God’s voice as soon as possible—in these times we need to quieten down and elevate our minds to God.

Her manner of speech, language, which was even “better” than the usual Jesuits, vitality and points stressed in the sermon that I could relate to had a viscerous impact on me.

While I am not one to judge women who are doctors, lawyers or in positions of authority, I had trouble not placing a judgement on a female Protestant minister in a Catholic mass. It was then that I asked myself why I was viewing her as a “threat” when she clearly had great respect for the Catholic Church, even though she differs to it on a theological basis, by her presence.

Perhaps I was judging by legalistic standards and God placed her in front of me, in the appropriate circumstances for me to see, that what really counts is our character, not our religion we subscribe to, or our race or anything else that is “frivolous”. Our differences may be overcome with Christian love, sensitivity and maturity.

“Let him who has no sin cast the first stone.”

Jesus

“Be strict with yourself, gentle towards others.” St Terese of Avila.

“I have a dream that we will judge others not by the colour of our skin, but by the content of our character.” Martin Luther King Jnr.

 

[fredystairs]

Let me throw out some suggestions here. First, could it be that this was a female minister and the Church teaches the priesthood is reserved for men and that is making you uncomfortable? While I know of Catholic women who are theologians, none try to be priests.

Also, you said that this was a mass. I’m a little fuzzy on this, but are non-Catholic clergy allowed to give homilies at mass?

I don’t mean to say that these are what you are thinking. Just throwing out ideas.

Pax

 

[brown_bear]

In fact, the most recent provisions of the Holy See reserve the task of the homily for the priest and deacon, and therefore not for the laity and ministers of other confessions.

But I think that Zerg’s speech was much broader, on the fact of not judging anyone, of not having prejudices, or clichés, and on this I am absolutely in tune.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

are non-Catholic clergy allowed to give homilies at mass?

I thought that the homily at Mass could only be given by a Catholic clergy, as in a priest or a deacon.
Which would mean that non-Catholics (whether clergy or not) couldn’t give homilies, and also that women (whether Catholic or not) couldn’t give homilies.

Assuming this is the rule, it’s pretty obvious some priests ignore it. We had a thread a few months back where a priest invited a Catholic lay woman to give the Mother’s Day homily.

In this case my judgment is more on the priest who invited the person, than on the person responding to an invite and doing what she normally does at her own church.

If this Protestant minister was speaking at some other gathering, like a retreat, or an ecumenical service, or at her own church service, then no judgment from me except on the content and delivery of her speech, which sounds fine. I’m okay with listening to Protestant ministers, men or women, just not during the homily at Mass.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I thought that the homily at Mass could only be given by a Catholic clergy, as in a priest or a deacon.
Which would mean that non-Catholics (whether clergy or not) couldn’t give homilies, and also that women (whether Catholic or not) couldn’t give homilies.

This is correct. During the mass, only a priest or deacon (on receiving a blessing from the priest prior to the homily) can give the homily. No one else is permitted to, period.

Code of Canon Law 767: Among the forms of preaching, the homily, which is part of the liturgy itself and is reserved to a priest or deacon, is preeminent; in the homily the mysteries of faith and the norms of Christian life are to be explained from the sacred text during the course of the liturgical year.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

When priests make a point of inviting women to give homilies, it’s hard not to interpret that as them sending a message that women should be allowed to be priests also.

I would be a lot more comfortable if they just said out loud, “I think women should be allowed to be priests” rather than being seemingly sneaky about planting the suggestion.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I would be a lot more comfortable if they just said out loud, “I think women should be allowed to be priests” rather than being seemingly sneaky about planting the suggestion.

It is an idea which stands in contrast to Christ’s Church. As with all which stand opposed to God, it must sneak about until the World overcomes God. We have seen that in many Protestant religious groups. It cannot happen in the Church, at least not within the official teaching of the Church, and so those who support it will sneak about trying to enact their will upon God. Some clergy are bold and misguided enough to openly defy the Church, but most are cowards who believe falsely but enjoy the false appearance of piety…

Not that I have strong feelings on the subject or anything… >_>

 

[brown_bear]

IMO we are a bit lost in a detail in the whole of a deeper discourse

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Well, let’s step back from the issue of her being a lay woman giving a homily then.

I think it is easiest to perceive those of another religion as not being “threats” when we are working together on something.
Like if I was working with a Protestant minister on a civil rights initiative, or a community project, or even just having them for my neighbor and we’re working on property repairs (This actually happens with me because I own a property right next door to a Protestant church) then there’s no threat there, the person is just my Christian neighbor and we are doing good work together.

But when somebody is going to preach in a liturgical setting, there is some worry that Catholics might think the Protestant minister has more to offer, whether it’s because they’re a woman, or that they can be married, or that they can (in some denominations) be openly gay, or because they are just a much better speaker than Father X who we’ve been hearing every other week for a year anyway.

 

[1ke]

I’m a little fuzzy on this, but are non-Catholic clergy allowed to give homilies at mass?

No. They aren’t.

 

[Beryllos]

It is part of the unfavorable parts of ourselves that we tend to judge others on a myriad of things, clothes, education level, etc.

From the title and this first paragraph, I thought the thread was going to be more generally about the human tendency to judge.

I think it’s biological, that is, hard-wired into our brain structure. We are social animals, and judgment is one of several brain functions that make a society possible.

Like many other aspects of life, we can regulate it by conditioning and conscious effort.

 

[porthos11]

It is part of the unfavorable parts of ourselves that we tend to judge others on a myriad of things, clothes, education level, etc.

A few weeks ago, my conscience challenged me to accept the beautiful homily of a Protestant female minister. It was a streamed mass on Women’s day (historic public holiday where I live) where the Jesuit priest invited this minister to give a sermon in which she preached on the first and second readings and the holy Gospel.

The former was about Elijah’s fear in awaiting God’s voice and hearing it in the calm of a wind after a hurricane and an earthquake, the gist of which was linked to the gospel where the disciplines traveling with Jesus on a boat at about 3am were confronted by a vicious storm, which Jesus calmed down and diminished it. The main point that I took away from the sermon was that in our lives we have 3am moments of crisis or anxiety and are anxious to hear God’s voice as soon as possible—in these times we need to quieten down and elevate our minds to God.

Her manner of speech, language, which was even “better” than the usual Jesuits, vitality and points stressed in the sermon that I could relate to had a viscerous impact on me.

While I am not one to judge women who are doctors, lawyers or in positions of authority, I had trouble not placing a judgement on a female Protestant minister in a Catholic mass. It was then that I asked myself why I was viewing her as a “threat” when she clearly had great respect for the Catholic Church, even though she differs to it on a theological basis, by her presence.

Perhaps I was judging by legalistic standards and God placed her in front of me, in the appropriate circumstances for me to see, that what really counts is our character, not our religion we subscribe to, or our race or anything else that is “frivolous”. Our differences may be overcome with Christian love, sensitivity and maturity.

“Let him who has no sin cast the first stone.”

Jesus

“Be strict with yourself, gentle towards others.” St Terese of Avila.

“I have a dream that we will judge others not by the colour of our skin, but by the content of our character.” Martin Luther King Jnr.

Was this at a Mass?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

He said it was a “Streamed Mass”.

 

[porthos11]

He said it was a “Streamed Mass”.

Ah yes. Without capitalization, I missed “mass”.

Then I do judge, seven ways to next Sunday.

This was a major liturgical abuse, a violation of the laws of the Church. I wouldn’t care what the contents of the homily were, even if they were written by an angel. By example, they show a complete disdain for the Church’s laws, hardly a sign of “respect” as claimed.

 

[AlmaRedemptorisMater]

Perhaps I was judging by legalistic standards

I would hardly call the disciplines or doctrines of the Church legalistic.

 

[Zerg]

I have listened to the Jesuit at the mass in previous masses on YouTube. He is a good priest, so I can only assume that he made an honest mistake in inviting a Protestant minister to say the homily.

Personally, what I wanted to say, was that I was quick to judge, where I should have been seeing through the eyes of Christ, embracing diversity (differences) as Christians.

God bless

 

[ProdglArchitect]

where I should have been seeing through the eyes of Christ, embracing diversity (differences) as Christians.

Jesus never preached on diversity. That’s a modern buzzword. Quite the opposite, he preached to exclude those who will not hear the Truth. (“Shake the dust from your sandals…”) Differences are a bad thing where matters of doctrine are concerned, they are weakness, not strength, and they lead people astray. The Protestant may have good things to say, but they should not be allowed to speak during the Mass.

 

[porthos11]

Zerg:

where I should have been seeing through the eyes of Christ, embracing diversity (differences) as Christians.

Jesus never preached on diversity. That’s a modern buzzword. Quite the opposite, he preached to exclude those who will not hear the Truth. (“Shake the dust from your sandals…”) Differences are a bad thing where matters of doctrine are concerned, they are weakness, not strength, and they lead people astray. The Protestant may have good things to say, but they should not be allowed to speak during the Mass.

We can be diverse on many things, and the Catholic Church is an excellent example of this, and has been from the beginning. A diversity of rites, peoples, cultures, devotions.

What I find troublesome is “diversity for diversity’s sake”, resulting in questionable practices like “affirmative action” and affirmation of sin.

Sin, by the way, is judged. There is no room for “diversity” where sin is concerned.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

We can be diverse on many things, and the Catholic Church is an excellent example of this, and has been from the beginning. A diversity of rites, peoples, cultures, devotions.

What I find troublesome is “diversity for diversity’s sake”, resulting in questionable practices like “affirmative action” and affirmation of sin.

Sin, by the way, is judged. There is no room for “diversity” where sin is concerned.

I agree wholeheartedly. It just seemed to me that the post was supporting the Protestant giving a homily as some kind of positive “diversity,” which is what I took issue with.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

He is a good priest, so I can only assume that he made an honest mistake in inviting a Protestant minister to say the homily.

I probably like Jesuits more than most of the people on this forum.
But please understand that

1. Jesuits are among the most highly educated priests out there and
2. Jesuits know very well when they skate close to the church’s boundaries or even cross them. Usually, Jesuits just don’t care. They will do all kinds of things other priests won’t. Sometimes this results in great good, other times it results in stuff like the Jesuit who used to serve in Congress (and was also pro-choice and would express that) getting told to leave office by the Pope.

It is a bit naive to presume that the Jesuit just made a mistake. If he were an ordinary parish priest I might think it more possible.