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flufflepuff
Guest
Why do we need them? Why not just pray directly as the Protestants do? Not trying to cause a fight here, in RICA classes and went to Lutheran Churches a lot as a young child so this is all new concept.
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humble_catholic
Guest
Are you saying that praying for others should be outlawed ?
Why do Protestants ask their fellow protestants to pray for them?
Why don’t they also just pray directly to Jesus .
If it’s ok and biblical to pray for each other (as Protestants readily admit ) then why shouldn’t we ask Mary and the saints to pray for us ?
Doesn’t it say in the bible that the prayers of the righteous carry great weight with God?
Tell me who is more righteous us humans who are still on earth or Mary and the saints living in heaven. Remember that nothing unclean as far as sin can enter into heaven .
C
Cathoholic
Guest
flufflepuff. You asked:
Because God wants us to be a “body” of believers. The Mystical Body of Christ.
God does not want us to be Lone Rangers (see here for Lone Ranger).
That’s WHY St. Paul can say:
1st CORINTHIANS 12:12-27 12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body–Jews or Greeks, slaves or free–and all were made to drink of one Spirit. 14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18 But as it is, God arranged the organs in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single organ, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body. 21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you," nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, the parts of the body which seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and those parts of the body which we think less honorable we invest with the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving the greater honor to the inferior part, 25 that there may be no discord in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together. 27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.
It always strikes me as ironic. The people who are trying to pretend they have no need of anyone else are all claiming to be “Biblical” yet all relying on . . . . (you know what I am going to say) . . .
. . . all relying on other MEN!
Men who the Holy Spirit worked through to be sure, but men.
Men like Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. St. Peter, St. Paul and so many others. St. John the Baptist too (who never wrote any Scripture).
The prophets who St. Matthew refers to in Matthew 2:23. These same inspired prophets of God who are quoted NOWHERE from the Old Testament (thus it shows an authoritative ORAL Tradition), yet authoritatively refer to Jesus as being a Nazarene.
MATTHEW 2:23 23 And he went and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that what was spoken by the prophets might be fulfilled, “He shall be called a Nazarene.”
There are NO Old Testament VERSES in Scripture that talk about Jesus being called “a Nazarene”. Not one prophet much less prophets (plural).
I hope RCIA goes well and welcome to CAF.
Hope this helped.
God bless.
Cathoholic
PS We go DIRECTLY to God too. I don’t want to create a false either/or dichotomy. It is a yes/and paradigm.
My dad (who became Catholic before he died) was also from one of the strict Confessional Lutheran Churches so I have an idea of what you are talking about (the re-defining of and antithetical attitude toward the Communion of Saints from many of our Lutheran family members and friends).
Because God wants us to be a “body” of believers. The Mystical Body of Christ.
God does not want us to be Lone Rangers (see here for Lone Ranger).
That’s WHY St. Paul can say:
1st CORINTHIANS 12:12-27 12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body–Jews or Greeks, slaves or free–and all were made to drink of one Spirit. 14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18 But as it is, God arranged the organs in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single organ, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body. 21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you," nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, the parts of the body which seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and those parts of the body which we think less honorable we invest with the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving the greater honor to the inferior part, 25 that there may be no discord in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together. 27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.
It always strikes me as ironic. The people who are trying to pretend they have no need of anyone else are all claiming to be “Biblical” yet all relying on . . . . (you know what I am going to say) . . .
. . . all relying on other MEN!
Men who the Holy Spirit worked through to be sure, but men.
Men like Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. St. Peter, St. Paul and so many others. St. John the Baptist too (who never wrote any Scripture).
The prophets who St. Matthew refers to in Matthew 2:23. These same inspired prophets of God who are quoted NOWHERE from the Old Testament (thus it shows an authoritative ORAL Tradition), yet authoritatively refer to Jesus as being a Nazarene.
MATTHEW 2:23 23 And he went and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that what was spoken by the prophets might be fulfilled, “He shall be called a Nazarene.”
There are NO Old Testament VERSES in Scripture that talk about Jesus being called “a Nazarene”. Not one prophet much less prophets (plural).
I hope RCIA goes well and welcome to CAF.
Hope this helped.
God bless.
Cathoholic
PS We go DIRECTLY to God too. I don’t want to create a false either/or dichotomy. It is a yes/and paradigm.
C
chaunceygardner
Guest
I don’t think anyone “needs” to pray to Mary or other saints. None of it is in the Bible. It has, however, a long history in the Catholic Church and is something that most Catholics observe and do from early on. There are many Marian prayers and various litanies of the saints that are used at various times.
As a Bible oriented Protestant, it is strange to you, and you are one of many who have questioned it. My take is that you can prayer as much or as little as you want to Mary and other saints. If you pray mostly or only directly to God, I can’t see how that would displease God.
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