Why do you think God allowed Protestantism?

[DLClark]

i see. can you tell me what Jesus said to the disciples when He said to them relating to the pharisees of His time: "do as they tell you, but do not do as they do.’ do you think Jesus encouraged disunity and dissobedience here?

peace.

Have you come to the place in your spiritual life where you know for sure that when you die that you will be in heaven with God?

 

[jmcrae]

You are asking the wrong question. What if protestantism is correct? What should you do about it?

Protestantism as a whole cannot be correct, because it contradicts itself on almost every point of Doctrine. For every Protestant who teaches the Trinity, you have a non-Trinitarian Protestant. For every Protestant group who teaches that Jesus is True God and True Man, you have a Protestant group that teaches that Jesus was a good man, but not really God, or else that Jesus attained godhood at some point during his earthly life.

The measuring stick of correct Doctrine is the teachings of the Catholic Church, since when deciding between these groups of Protestants to know which ones have the Truth, you have to look to what the Catholic Church teaches, and that’s how you know that those Protestants who believe in the Trinity are correct, and that those Protestants who believe that Jesus is True God and True Man are correct.

However, I have already put the question, If the Catholic Church is not the True Church, then which Protestant Church is the True Church?

No one has ever responded coherently - there is all kinds of talk of an “invisible Church” (which is thoroughly unbiblical - the Church of the Book of Acts was quite visible, and had a known leadership) but no one has ever pointed to a specific denomination of Protestantism and declared, "This denomination is the true heir to the promises of Christ to the Church, and my evidence is … "

 

[distracted]

It’s also largely because of the visible prominence of The Church throughout all time. You don’t see public scrutiny over non-Catholic iniquity because there’s no target…the sins of non-Catholic leaders evade detection because each individual represents only the congregation on 5th and Main in Anywhere USA. So it doesn’t make headlines. g.

thanks… never thought of that before…

also of interest is that in the general population… one in 4 girls is molested by the age of (i think) 16 and 1 in 6 boys is…

so why all the focus on the 2% (somewhat less than 2% actually) that happens by priests???

we should be fighting this more “commonplace” … kind of abuse…

more children are abused by thier own relatives than by priests… FAR, far more…

 

[distracted]

Here something to think about.
Have you come to the place in your spiritual life where you know for sure that if you were to die today that you will be in heaven with God? You can know this wonderful truth for sure. Do you know it?

i am sure that if i died today i would be on my way to Heaven… but i know that i would not actually be there for some time because i know am not pure enough to enter Heaven yet… @ this point…

i know this because when i am in the Holy Presence, i see certain unholy things about myself… unholy, ungodly ways of thinking… (tend to put certain things … certain of my “wants”, etc… before… the goal of being holy… )

a person has to see this kind of thing befroe s/he can work on it, give it to the Lord, etc… and i don’t see this kind of thing unless i am in His Holy Presence…

Christ’s tangible Presence is in the Church… the Catholic Church … and nowhere else…

this is probably one reason why Protestants spend more time in Purgatory than Catholics…

(assuming they make it to Purg at all… )

Jesus said that many will try to enter Heavne but will not be “strong enough”… (which applies to Catholics and Protestnats… both )

 

[distracted]

The pope wasn’t preaching the gospel of Jesus. He was preaching a false gospel. He was accepting money for forgiveness of sins. w_stewart 5 asked me if this was official church doctrine. My point is this: What does that have to do with it? The pope has no right to teach his own doctrine. Just because it isn’t the official church doctrine that doesn’t make it OK. In the Middle Ages and now the pope represents the Catholic Church and people think he is infallible all the time. Most people don’t know what infallible means today so back then you know they didn’t have a clue. He took advantage of their ignorance and enjoyed having an ignorant congregation. Isn’t the Church supposed to bring light into the world? He was working for darkness, preaching a phony gospel and we think it’s terrible that Luther said “faith alone.”

proove to me that the pope was preaching a false gospel and accepting $ for forgiveness…

Indulgences are NOT wrong or sinful and the Church still practices this. And even if the pope was doing something corrupt… Oh well… people are like that. The Church teaches we are NOT to follow someone blindly just becaue he is called “Father” or whatever…

you have a view of the Church that seems to have been obtained by reading not so reliable sources of info…

and another thing: you seem to see SO much evil in the Church people who lived back then… I don’t belive there are many pepole who are as sold out to evil as you seem to think… There is ignorance… true… and misunderstandings of the Church teachings… but you act like people were (all of them) preaching "phony gospel"s … etc… what? just for the heck of it?

M Luther was a heretic…

Why do you call yourself Catholic and yet defend him (and make the Church out to be so evil)?
M Luther was a human being and a very fallen one, in my opinion… The Church is HOLY… and, althouhg human, it is also divine…

 

[jargon631]

You are asking the wrong question. What if protestantism is correct? What should you do about it?

good focusing question…too funny…fd

 

[jargon631]

thanks… never thought of that before…

also of interest is that in the general population… one in 4 girls is molested by the age of (i think) 16 and 1 in 6 boys is…

so why all the focus on the 2% (somewhat less than 2% actually) that happens by priests???

we should be fighting this more “commonplace” … kind of abuse…

more children are abused by thier own relatives than by priests… FAR, far more…

because the priests are representatives of an organisation that claims control over their lives/alleged afterlives…the priests have been presented to the people as the arbiters of what is moral and acceptable in the eyes of god…they are the ones who “intercede” on behalf of the faithful, right?..these children who are molested are in the company of that pedarist because they were told that he was the posessor of some kind of divine authority…isnt that also correct?..dont feel too bad, though…the statistics on policemen, judges, ministers,family members, family friends are equally as horrible…dont waste your time getting mad because people (myself included) think that two percent is a significant
number…figure out how to help eliminate it “root and branch”…then you can get mad at people all you want (rhetorical, i’m not telling you when to/not to get ticked off…lol)…personally?..i think that the granting of isolation status to pedophiles in prison should be abolished…perhaps a stint in gen. pop. would give them incentive not to do it again…fd

 

[jargon631]

You may have been referring to the present day, but I wasn’t. The public focus on Catholicism is leaps and bounds above any other branch of Christianity because she is not limited to present-day Christianity. She is as old as Christianity is. Precisely as old.

I care if a Catholic becomes a baptist because that change is not necessarily a lesser adoration of the Savior (atleast in their own mind)…but it IS a lesser degree of obedience. They also would have put themselves outside of the fullness of Truth, opting for partial Truth.

So, yes…I care about that.

hi steve…how is it a lesser degree of obedience?..who decides what truth is?..i was raised by the sda (not now, mind you…lol)and believe me, those folks were devout!!..uber-devout!!..lolol…if they thought they were doing ANYTHING that wasnt according to gods will, they would agonize and study until they felt that all was right in their spiritual life…they would also disagree as to the nature of Truth…vehemently…bear in mind, though, steve…i dont think that ANY religion is correct, so i hope i dont come across as a hater…thats not my intent…frederick…

 

[wisdomseeker]

So you are saying that we are unable to not only not communicate with each other, but that God is not able to communicate with His creatures because of as you call it the “indeterminancy of language” a language that God Himself has given to us. The bible doesn’t need to “justify itself”. It is the word of God and I know this because of faith. Also there is Isaiah 8:20To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. And 1Timothy3:16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. Now you don’t have to beleive these verses, but if you can’t I feel sorry for you and I will pray that the Spirit of the one true God will open your heart to the faith that is necessary to please Him.

John 17
20 And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me. 21 That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them: that, they may be one, as we also are one. 23 I in them, and thou in me: that they may be made perfect in one: and the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me. 24 Father, I will that where I am, they also whom thou hast given me may be with me: that they may see my glory which thou hast given me, because thou hast loved me before the creation of the world. 25 Just Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee. And these have known that thou hast sent me. 26 And I have made known thy name to them and will make it known: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

were you there at the times of the Apostles? the CC received their teachings from the Apostles themselves who received the teachings of Jesus Himself. that is what you must understand. that is why the CC deserves reverence and respect from all, because to her is the promise of Christ that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. how old is your belief system, do you know?

 

[jargon631]

proove to me that the pope was preaching a false gospel and accepting $ for forgiveness…

me…prove to me that he wasnt

Indulgences are NOT wrong or sinful and the Church still practices this

me…really?..WOW!!!

. And even if the pope was doing something corrupt… Oh well… people are like that.

me…i repeat…WOW!!!..do you really feel that way?..

The Church teaches we are NOT to follow someone blindly just becaue he is called “Father” or whatever…

you have a view of the Church that seems to have been obtained by reading not so reliable sources of info…

me…or by study and observation

and another thing: you seem to see SO much evil in the Church people who lived back then… I don’t belive there are many pepole who are as sold out to evil as you seem to think… There is ignorance… true… and misunderstandings of the Church teachings… but you act like people were (all of them) preaching "phony gospel"s … etc… what? just for the heck of it?

me…no…for personal and financial gain

M Luther was a heretic…

Why do you call yourself Catholic and yet defend him (and make the Church out to be so evil)?

---

me***…doesnt he have the right?

M Luther was a human being and a very fallen one, in my opinion… The Church is HOLY… and, althouhg human, it is also divine…

me…humanity, by it’s very nature cannot be divine…fd

 

[wisdomseeker]

hi steve…how is it a lesser degree of obedience?..who decides what truth is?..i was raised by the sda (not now, mind you…lol)and believe me, those folks were devout!!..uber-devout!!..lolol…if they thought they were doing ANYTHING that wasnt according to gods will, they would agonize and study until they felt that all was right in their spiritual life…they would also disagree as to the nature of Truth…vehemently…bear in mind, though, steve…i dont think that ANY religion is correct, so i hope i dont come across as a hater…thats not my intent…frederick…

John
20 And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me. 21 That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them: that, they may be one, as we also are one. 23 I in them, and thou in me: that they may be made perfect in one: and the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me. 24 Father, I will that where I am, they also whom thou hast given me may be with me: that they may see my glory which thou hast given me, because thou hast loved me before the creation of the world. 25 Just Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee. And these have known that thou hast sent me. 26 And I have made known thy name to them and will make it known: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

if you notice here Jesus says through their word. this is not saying through reading their word, does it? how are we to hear their word today i f not through those who were appointed by them as Jesus appointed them? and how do we know we have the Truth? by listen fto those whom Jesus promise the Spirit of Truth. not by reading but by hearing the Word of God we have faith. hear from whom? you must ask yourselves this question. if you doubt that the Truth exists, then you doubt the Words of Jesus. Jesus would never leave us with confusion. many false teachings arose during the Apostles times. just like today, many heretical teachings are popping up everywhere. so, seek the Truth and you shall find. there is the True teachings of our Lord Jesus to this day. you just have to seek it.

highprayer::byzsoc:

 

[jargon631]

John
20 And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me. 21 That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them: that, they may be one, as we also are one. 23 I in them, and thou in me: that they may be made perfect in one: and the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me. 24 Father, I will that where I am, they also whom thou hast given me may be with me: that they may see my glory which thou hast given me, because thou hast loved me before the creation of the world. 25 Just Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee. And these have known that thou hast sent me. 26 And I have made known thy name to them and will make it known: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

if you notice here Jesus says through their word. this is not saying through reading their word, does it? how are we to hear their word today i f not through those who were appointed by them as Jesus appointed them? and how do we know we have the Truth? by listen fto those whom Jesus promise the Spirit of Truth. not by reading but by hearing the Word of God we have faith. hear from whom? you must ask yourselves this question. if you doubt that the Truth exists, then you doubt the Words of Jesus. Jesus would never leave us with confusion. many false teachings arose during the Apostles times. just like today, many heretical teachings are popping up everywhere. so, seek the Truth and you shall find. there is the True teachings of our Lord Jesus to this day. you just have to seek it.

highprayer::byzsoc:

lovely…thank you for quoting the bible at me…i dont believe that clergy are appointed by god, so their words carry no special weight…if i were a christian, i would say that truth is learned by studying and prayer…not by taking some guys word for things…fd

 

[jmcrae]

lovely…thank you for quoting the bible at me…i dont believe that clergy are appointed by god, so their words carry no special weight…if i were a christian, i would say that truth is learned by studying and prayer…not by taking some guys word for things…fd

What do you study, unless you take “some guy’s” word for it that the materials available for study are in some way reliable? The Bible didn’t fall from the sky and land under a rock for people to discover - it was written and compiled by human beings, all of whom were “some guy”.

 

[distracted]

distracted;5391945:

proove to me that the pope was preaching a false gospel and accepting $ for forgiveness…

me

…prove to me that he wasnt

Indulgences are NOT wrong or sinful and the Church still practices this

me…really?..WOW!!!

…fd

you obviously don’t u/stand indulgences… and i’m going off line so can’t explain now…

God is cpable of establishing an infallble Church (meaning the teachings thereof are infallible, not the members therein)…

If he is capable…

and if he knows that we need such guidance…

and if peple will admit that they DO need such guidance, because w/o such guidance they commit all kinds of atrocities and end up in Hell…

well, then, either God did what he was capable of or he didn’t…

 

[wisdomseeker]

lovely…thank you for quoting the bible at me…i dont believe that clergy are appointed by god, so their words carry no special weight…if i were a christian, i would say that truth is learned by studying and prayer…not by taking some guys word for things…fd

i take you discredit Jesus too? because Jesus was a man also. or you dont believe this to be true?. did not Jesus says throught their word? aparently you dont take the Word of Jesus either. if the Catholic Church is not appointed by the Lord Himself, then who do you think is here today to teach men what the apostles thaught then?

:byzsoc:

 

[RDJ]

For the same reason that He allowed Gnosticism, Nestorianism, Arianism, and every other heresy - so that the Church would be moved to define its teachings even more clearly, and bring us even closer to a full understanding of Christ.

After all, if there had never been any heresies, there never would have been any Councils, and there are so many things that would be more difficult for us to understand, and to find out, because the definitions for them would not exist.

But iron sharpens iron, and fierce opposition forces us to clarify our teachings, and beak them down into small concepts, simple enough for everyone to understand them.

I have also noticed that competition improves the final product. A Catholic Church that is situated within walking distance of one or more Protestant churches tends to be a lot more orthodox in its teaching than one that has no such competition.

Why did you have to link Protestantism and Aryanism?
Back to what the original poster said:

1. You don’t need religion, only salvation through Jesus Christ.
2. Not everyone wants to belong to a Catholic Church, but those people still need to know how to be saved.

 

[ron77nyc]

proove to me that the pope was preaching a false gospel and accepting $ for forgiveness…

It’s history.

Indulgences are NOT wrong or sinful and the Church still practices this. And even if the pope was doing something corrupt… Oh well… people are like that. The Church teaches we are NOT to follow someone blindly just becaue he is called “Father” or whatever…

Selling forgiveness is wrong.

you have a view of the Church that seems to have been obtained by reading not so reliable sources of info…

You have to hear both sides to know the truth. Have you done that?

and another thing: you seem to see SO much evil in the Church people who lived back then… I don’t belive there are many pepole who are as sold out to evil as you seem to think… There is ignorance… true… and misunderstandings of the Church teachings… but you act like people were (all of them) preaching "phony gospel"s … etc… what? just for the heck of it?

M Luther was a heretic…

Why do you call yourself Catholic and yet defend him (and make the Church out to be so evil)?
M Luther was a human being and a very fallen one, in my opinion… The Church is HOLY… and, althouhg human, it is also divine…

Protestants also sell forgiveness and miracles on television. They are not all theives. Just the ones who try to get money. All Catholics are not corrupt either. Just the ones who con people. Usually the ones at the top. Priests and lay people are usually good.

 

[infj_bookworm]

You think THAT is a tough question? As a Jew reflecting on 2000 years of the church torturing and killing Jews, I wonder why G-d allowed Christianity.

 

[Nino]

hey this is great…a ‘Christian site’ where in folks can write in and lampoon GOD…maybe I have linked up with Voltaire and his relatives somehow! all of the above we have had to go thru before…the age of enlightnenment had great fun using this same kind of logic…notice they never mention things like…oh I know…Why didnt ‘God’ change the mind of FDR ,so that instead of remaining silent when that ship of some 947 Jewish refugees were off the coast of Miami back in 1939 ,why didnt ‘GOD’ order FDR to allow these folks to enter America instead of looking the other way ,thus forcing the ship back to Germany and the ovens…Why cant ‘GOD’ stop this unholy fixation with an entertainer who liked to molest little boys at his fantasy ranch …we were made with a mind to think with, a body to act with and a heart to love with…after that we are on our own…what the above want are robots as in cuba and china…mmmmmmmmm…have a nice day

 

[Michael_Francis]

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