Why does consecrated bread spoil?

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mshealy

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Transubstantiation teaches in part that once the bread is consecrated, it becomes the true body (“substance”) of the risen Christ. Further, unlike the Lutheran view (consubstantiation), it remains the body of Christ until spoilage, i.e., until the “accidents” are no longer those of bread. Query: If the “substance” is really changed, it’s no longer bread in substance, so how can it spoil, i.e., go stale and mold?
 
For the same reason that a person with celiac disease can’t receive it, that alcoholics should probably not receive the Precious Blood, and that all the the Precious Blood is consumed after Communion by either the Priest or the EMs or the EMHCs. The accidents (physical properties) of bread and wine are still there.

And as far as the substance changing, like through spoilage, or whatever, I think it might be something akin to, why the Echaristic fast is before receiving, not after. Fr. Serpa answered a question about that in AAA. Once you begins digestion, it no longer resembles bread, and there is no irreverence with eating right after to leave Mass having received. Likewise, if you are giving a broken piece of the Host, that might make crumbs in your hand, you do your best to eat the ones you see, but a particle too small to be seen, you are not culpable for.
 
There have actually been miracles where the Eucharist did not spoil.
 
mshealy said:
Transubstantiation teaches in part that once the bread is consecrated, it becomes the true body (“substance”) of the risen Christ. Further, unlike the Lutheran view (consubstantiation), it remains the body of Christ until spoilage, i.e., until the “accidents” are no longer those of bread. Query: If the “substance” is really changed, it’s no longer bread in substance, so how can it spoil, i.e., go stale and mold?
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your confusion is simply a matter of defining words. Substance means “what it actually IS”. Accidents meands, “what are its chemical and physical properties?” since the accidents remain those of bread and wine, the matter will behave physically and chemically as do bread and wine-spoil, mold etc. You in substance are not merely the various chemical elements that make up your body, you are much more, your soul, mind, intellect, which despite some badly misinformed scientists, are not mere physical accidents.
 
It says the blood type is AB. that is the universal (whole blood)recipient, and univarsal plasma donor. Just an interesting tidbit. It doesn’t say positive or negative though.

And it says it is the same blood type of the Shroud of Turin. I thought I heard the shroud wasn’t real?

I would have assumed the blood type would not be identifiable, or something different from anyone elses. Like AO (alpha and omega) or something.
 
the topic of this thread is not Eucharistic Miracles, it is the ordinary accidents of bread and wine.
 
mshealy said:
Transubstantiation teaches in part that once the bread is consecrated, it becomes the true body (“substance”) of the risen Christ. Further, unlike the Lutheran view (consubstantiation), it remains the body of Christ until spoilage, i.e., until the “accidents” are no longer those of bread. Query: If the “substance” is really changed, it’s no longer bread in substance, so how can it spoil, i.e., go stale and mold?
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Because you are misunderstanding the term “substance” as used in the theological explaination of “Transubstantiation”. You should in fact use the term “accidents” for what you think “substance” is.

Ken
 
puzzleannie said:
your confusion is simply a matter of defining words. Substance means “what it actually IS”. Accidents meands, “what are its chemical and physical properties?” since the accidents remain those of bread and wine, the matter will behave physically and chemically as do bread and wine-spoil, mold etc. You in substance are not merely the various chemical elements that make up your body, you are much more, your soul, mind, intellect, which despite some badly misinformed scientists, are not mere physical accidents.
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this is the best explanation I’ve heard yet - thank you puzzleannie!
 
mshealy said:
Transubstantiation teaches in part that once the bread is consecrated, it becomes the true body (“substance”) of the risen Christ. Further, unlike the Lutheran view (consubstantiation), it remains the body of Christ until spoilage, i.e., until the “accidents” are no longer those of bread. Query: If the “substance” is really changed, it’s no longer bread in substance, so how can it spoil, i.e., go stale and mold?
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Because the accidents are not transformed - the whiteness, roundness, & the chemical properties of what is consecrated, remain after the consecration. So if a host was poisoned before consecration, it would still be poisonous afterwards.​

As the chemistry of the host is unaltered, the host will corrupt if it is kept long enough to do so.

This is because the consecration affects the metaphysical state of the host - & that is something entirely different from what it is made of, which is its *material state. *They are different types of reality, & changing one need not involve a change in the other.
 
In the Orthodox Church, on Holy Thursday, at the Institution Liturgy A new 'Lamb" is concecrated and it replaces the previous one which was kept on reserve in the Tabernacle on the Holy Altar Table.
It remains uncorrupt through the whole year. It probably dries out, but it does not get stale, nor does it ever spoil or get mold. This is because it the real and true Body of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
If “accidents” refers to all the “chemical properties,” then what is “substance”? How is “substance” “what something really IS.,” but not it’s chemical properties???

I’m not sure that makes sense.
 
This is why the Orthodox Church never tries to explain HOW the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ. We just believe it does.
 
mshealy said:
If “accidents” refers to all the “chemical properties,” then what is “substance”? How is “substance” “what something really IS.,” but not it’s chemical properties???

I’m not sure that makes sense.
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Consider that you have no way of directly coming into contact with *any *substance. You can only determine what something is by its impact on your senses.

And it is precisely that which is perceptible to the senses that is known as “appearances” or accidents. So when the “accidents” remain while the substance changes, no change can ever be perceptible to your senses or to any scientific instrument. The consecrated host retains the appearances of bread and wine, beneath which is the body of Christ whole and entire.

We tend to think that “substance” has something to do with what is perceivable to our senses, but it is just the opposite.
 
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