Why does Jesus object to being called "good?"

[StrawberryJam]

Hi Strawberry,
oops never read you were agnostic.

Your posts confuse me now, who or what is the creator you spoke of in earlier posts.
example

Who is the creator that came to be with his creation?

Be kind and happy, i pray others treat you well to be so.

It’s okay Steven John!

We would be creation to your God, so we would be imperfect and make mistakes.
Your question: Who is the creator that came to be with his creation?

The perfect one, is one.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

Begotten, Not Made, One in being with the Father. God the Father making God the Son would make the Son a “lesser god” and would set up a “god less worthy” which is not possible. The Church in defining Jesus as begotten is receiving the truth from God through the Holy Spirit and is not one among many possible interpretations that we choose. Truth is objective and is received by the person and is assented to or rejected. Humble acceptance is important. Matthew 11:29 Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: and you shall find rest to your souls.

 

[Steven_John]

One in being with the Father

where does that come from?

I would read from that, Yeshua (pbwh) knows all that The Father knows. (but i am a poor scholar.)

being of one substance with the Father IMO would be clearer understanding.

Bless ya

 

[Steven_John]

We would be creation to your God, so we would be imperfect and make mistakes.

No exactly for me, My G-d created man perfect but with free will. This man strayed. Assuming no other beings created imperfect men i would be a descendant of the man that strayed. So G-d did not create me.

Your question: Who is the creator that came to be with his creation?

The perfect one, is one.

? maybe i dont understand what it means to be agnostic, sorry.

Do well and stay well.

 

[StillWondering]

Hey guys,

As a pastime I enjoy debating atheists and defending the faith and such, but then today I got a rather interesting problem.

In the story of the rich young man, the man addresses Jesus as “good teacher”, but Jesus objects, saying only God the Father is good. My opponent used to passage as a means to say Jesus is not the Son of God and is merely a flawed human.

This passage is kind of hard to explain, so why is it that Jesus says he is not good? If he is God then he must be good right?

I found this sermon by Fr Barron to be very insightful to your question.

wordonfire.org/WOF-Radio/Sermons/2009/Sermon-457-The-Necessity-of-Spiritual-Heroism-.aspx

 

[Leela]

Hey guys,

As a pastime I enjoy debating atheists and defending the faith and such, but then today I got a rather interesting problem.

In the story of the rich young man, the man addresses Jesus as “good teacher”, but Jesus objects, saying only God the Father is good. My opponent used to passage as a means to say Jesus is not the Son of God and is merely a flawed human.

This passage is kind of hard to explain, so why is it that Jesus says he is not good? If he is God then he must be good right?

To me, the obvious answer to this bugbear is that Jesus never actually claimed to be what later writers said he claimed to be, and that this is an authentic quote that managed to survive despite contradicting later additions which portray Jesus as having claimed to be God.

Best,
Leela

 

[o_mlly]

Bonhoeffer, in The Cost of Discipleship, emphasizes the necessity of faith as both incident and subsequent to Jesus’ call to discipleship. Citing the story of the rich young man in Chapter 19:16-30, Bonhoeffer notes that the man approaches Jesus addressing him as a “good master.” By calling Jesus’ “good master,” Bonhoeffer suggests the man, absent faith, is interested only in talking to a good rabbi about the academic problems of eternal life. Jesus proceeds to shock him out of his complacency drawing him into quite a different conversation. Jesus challenges him to drop the academic question and obediently respond to the will of God just revealed to him. But doubt and reflection take the place of spontaneous obedience. The young rich man hears the call, but lacking faith does not obey.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Dear Steven John,

It’s simple for one of belief. The perfect one, is one.

That is how I see it, that simply. Now, just to believe.

 

[nannygirl]

I don’t think Jesus is objecting to it at all, rather, when He asks ‘WHY do you call me ‘good’?’ He’s asking, in a subtle rather than obvious way ‘think about what you’re saying here, do you really want to be claiming that I’m God?’

LilyM is correct. Jesus isn’t objecting at all.

 

[grace_singh]

No of course not but the teacher we are talking about is Yeshua (pbwh) who was created by The Creators command.

actually, Jesus says otherwise.

John 17:5 reads “And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world began.”

this means Jesus had glory with (co-equality) the Father before the world was made, and thus that Jesus is un-created, and is Himself fully God.

He is God the Son, friend. eternal, co-equal with the Father, and under the Father. the Father sent Him, and in doing so sent Himself. He became a Man in history, yet is far more than an ethical teacher, spiritual master, prophet, or mere man.

He is God with us, and deserves to be honored as such, according to His own words.

…that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent Him. (John 5:23)

My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and the Father are One." (John 10:27-30)

if one does not honor Jesus as God, Lord, and Saviour, one does not truly honor Him. He is clear that He is distinct from and under the Father, yet also makes it clear that He and the father are One and the same Being, One and the same eternal, holy, and uncreated supreme God.

this is why we say God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Hey guys,

As a pastime I enjoy debating atheists and defending the faith and such, but then today I got a rather interesting problem.

In the story of the rich young man, the man addresses Jesus as “good teacher”, but Jesus objects, saying only God the Father is good. My opponent used to passage as a means to say Jesus is not the Son of God and is merely a flawed human.

This passage is kind of hard to explain, so why is it that Jesus says he is not good? If he is God then he must be good right?

It was a leading question. Christ was interested in knowing if the rich young man realised just who He was. The fact the rich young man was not prepared to forgo his wealth indicated that he did not really understand Christ was God in the flesh.

Then Christ expanded the lesson to say it was harder for the rich to get into heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle. Considering our current society’s obsession with wealth, Christ would not be very popular if He was preaching today.

We don’t crucify anymore, but we’d sure find a way to shut Him up.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

It was a leading question. Christ was interested in knowing if the rich young man realised just who He was. The fact the rich young man was not prepared to forgo his wealth indicated that he did not really understand Christ was God in the flesh.

Could the rich young man have ascertained the Trinity at that stage of Revelation? The Divine Person of Jesus or the Hypostatic union? It seems not. At that point it was a question of authority, Jesus having it, but not being the source of this in His humanity but from His union with the Father.

The key is in the phrase “God alone” and Jesus, the Son united to humanity, is not, at this point before the resurrection, calling attention to His Divinity as seen in His silencing the demons who know who He is. Eschewing wealth and following Jesus would lead this rich man to a fuller contemplation of Jesus. This is far deeper than a mere understanding a few words with someone, such as Jesus’ conversation with this young man, could convey and is a lesson for us too, follow Him.

This man’s attachment was to something other than God, that was the problem. Wealth is not a problem unless one is attached to it. If one is attached to God alone, wealth is not a hindrance to holiness, society included.

 

[Steven_John]

actually, Jesus says otherwise.

John 17:5 reads “And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world began.”

this means Jesus had glory with (co-equality) the Father before the world was made, and thus that Jesus is un-created, and is Himself fully God.

G-d pre existed this world, Yeshua (pbwh) pre existed this world.
I am not really good with scripture so please help me.
Direct me to where Yeshua (pbwh) is quoted as offering he has no beginning and no end.
A quote where Yeshua (pbwh) says the Father is not greater than I.
A quote that says The Father is not whole with out me.
A quote that says Yeshua (pbwh) is all knowing.

Please dont offer where Yeshua (pbwh) offers he is in unity with the Father. Thats being one in accord not being the same.

My understanding of G-d is He knows all and sees all and is never dependant or divided.

He is God the Son, friend. eternal, co-equal with the Father, and under the Father. the Father sent Him, and in doing so sent Himself. He became a Man in history, yet is far more than an ethical teacher, spiritual master, prophet, or mere man.

My understanding is Yeshua (pbwh) is narrated to have told he is our teacher never said he was not more.

He is God with us, and deserves to be honored as such, according to His own words.

…that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent Him. (John 5:23)

Never said we do no honour Yeshua (pbwh) if you do not honour Our Fathers goodness through the the person who does the least job for the kingdom we would not be honouring Our father.

My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and the Father are One." (John 10:27-30)

Yes the greater gives to us, this quote does not say I dont need the Father to give to me as I am He.

if one does not honor Jesus as God, Lord, and Saviour, one does not truly honor Him. He is clear that He is distinct from and under the Father,

Contradiction to being equal, G-d is undividable

yet also makes it clear that He and the Father are One

Amen he really was in unity with Our Father.

and the same Being, One and the same eternal, holy, and uncreated supreme God.

Your read much in little.

this is why we say God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

We are blessed to say what we will and I am not against you for this, our heart felt understanding is what counts.

G-d is all seeing all knowing of one mind never ignorant of Himself or us.

Bless ya Grace pray well and stay well

 

[StrawberryJam]

God’s will had not been and still is not complete, but when Jesus objected it was before his death and resurrection.

I respect Jews and Muslims for keeping their faith as they see it, but I think Islam misunderstands the Catholic perspective in this. To see Mary as a pure woman, and revered makes no sense, if she is simply another bearer of another mere prophet.

Islam confuses me, because of it’s love for Mary yet it’s inability to tell us why she would be special in any way.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

G-d pre existed this world, Yeshua (pbwh) pre existed this world.
I am not really good with scripture so please help me.
Direct me to where Yeshua (pbwh) is quoted as offering he has no beginning and no end.
A quote where Yeshua (pbwh) says the Father is not greater than I.
A quote that says The Father is not whole with out me.
A quote that says Yeshua (pbwh) is all knowing.

Please dont offer where Yeshua (pbwh) offers he is in unity with the Father. Thats being one in accord not being the same.

My understanding of G-d is He knows all and sees all and is never dependant or divided.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

The Catholic theologian first establishes the teaching body to which Christ gave His deposit of revealed truth, to have and to keep and to hand down that deposit without error or failure. This teaching body gives us the Bible; and gives us the dogma of the Divinity of Christ in the unwritten and the written Word of God, i.e. in tradition and Scripture. When contrasted with the Protestant position upon “the Bible, the whole Bible and nothing but the Bible”–no, not even anything to tell us what is the Bible and what is not the Bible–the Catholic position upon the Christ-established, never-failing, never-erring teaching body is impregnable.

Read the entire article then move on to other topics in the Catholic Encyclopedia, a few quotes from a forum is no way to learn about Catholicism. Bible alone is tenuous as per the multitude of interpretations that often contradict with each other.

**Jesus is the Son of God

According to the testimony of the Evangelists, Jesus Himself bore witness to His Divine Sonship. As Divine Ambassador He can not have borne false witness. Firstly, He asked the disciples, at Caesarea Philippi, “Whom do men say that the Son of man is?” (Matthew 16:13). This name Son of man was commonly used by the Saviour in regard to Himself; it bore testimony to His human nature and oneness with us. The disciples made answer that others said He was one of the prophets. Christ pressed them. "But whom do you say that I am? "(ibid., 15). Peter, as spokesman, replied: “Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God” (ibid., 16). Jesus was satisfied with this answer; it set Him above all the prophets who were the adopted sons of God; it made Him the natural Son of God. The adopted Divine sonship of all the prophets Peter had no need of special revelation to know. This natural Divine Sonship was made known to the leader of the Apostles only by a special revelation. “Flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven” (ibid., 17). Jesus clearly assumes this important title in the specially revealed and altogether new sense. He admits that He is the Son of God in the real sense of the word.**

** Jesus is God

St. John affirms in plain words that Jesus is God. The set purpose of the aged disciple was to teach the Divinity of Jesus in the Gospel, Epistles, and Apocalypse that he has left us; he was aroused to action against the first heretics that bruised the Church. “They went out from us, but they were not of us. For if they had been of us, they would no doubt have remained with us” (1 John 2:19). They did not confess Jesus Christ with that confession which they had obligation to make (1 John 4:3). John’s Gospel gives us the clearest confession of the Divinity of Jesus. We may translate from the original text: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was in relation to God and the Word was God” (John 1:1). The words ho theos (with the article) mean, in Johannine Greek, the Father. The expression pros ton theon reminds one forcibly of Aristotle’s to pros ti einai. This Aristotelian way of expressing relation found its like in the Platonic, Neo-Platonic, and Alexandrian philosophy; and it was the influence of this Alexandrian philosophy in Ephesus and elsewhere that John set himself to combat. It was, then, quite natural that John adopted some of the phraseology of his enemies, and by the expression ho logos en pros ton theon gave forth the mystery of the relation of Father with Son: “the Word stood in relation to the Father”, i.e., even in the beginning. At any rate the clause theos en ho logos means “the Word was God”. This meaning is driven home, in the irresistible logic of St. John, by the following verse: “All things were made by him.” **

newadvent.org/cathen/07706b.htm#II4

 

[Steven_John]

Earnest Bunbury
G-d bless you and yours