Why does the Catholic Church seem so fractured?

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ForeverJoy

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I am in RCIA, so please forgive me if my question is rude. But one thing that drew me to the Church was that she has a set of beliefs/teachings that have survived for the last 2000 years, basically without change despite our changing world. Especially in today’s society where many Protestant churches seem more divided and worldly every day.

Yet, the more I read and try to learn about the Church, the more confused I get. There seems to be different factions or something, that want to change the direction of the church. There are liberal ones, who want to change the church’s view on marriage and homosexual unions, while others that say the Church is too liberal already. I’ve seen people complain that it’s too traditional, or that it went downhill after Vatican II, whatever that means.

And this is on top of not understanding why there are different religious orders and lay societies, and what the heck is Opus Dei? Why do some Bishops seem in opposition to the teaching of the church by the things they say in the media? And why does the Church in Germany seem to be going its own way? Are these orders and societies officially part of the Church, or are they their own separate organizations?

It’s all very confusing to this (hopefully soon to be former) Protestant. I was hoping to come home to a Church that was united, rather than splintered like the Protestants. Or is this sort of like the Pope’s infallibility…where I can have hope and faith that the Holy Spirit will keep the Church headed in the right direction despite our human failings and tendencies to bicker among ourselves? :confused:

I do love our Parish, and it’s members have been so warm and loving to me and my family.
 
Being over 2,000 years old and now over 1.3 billion strong, you can imagine there are a lot of different perspectives in the Catholic church. However, where it counts, our dogma and doctrine, we’re pretty unified. There are some things where there may be leeway but in general what you’re seeing are just facets to a very deep culture. At the core, we are unified.

Praying that you have a Blessed Lent. 👍
 
ForeverJoy said:
I am in RCIA, so please forgive me if my question is rude. But one thing that drew me to the Church was that she has a set of beliefs/teachings that have survived for the last 2000 years, basically without change despite our changing world. Especially in today’s society where many Protestant churches seem more divided and worldly every day.

Yet, the more I read and try to learn about the Church, the more confused I get. There seems to be different factions or something, that want to change the direction of the church. There are liberal ones, who want to change the church’s view on marriage and homosexual unions, while others that say the Church is too liberal already. I’ve seen people complain that it’s too traditional, or that it went downhill after Vatican II, whatever that means.

And this is on top of not understanding why there are different religious orders and lay societies, and what the heck is Opus Dei? Why do some Bishops seem in opposition to the teaching of the church by the things they say in the media? And why does the Church in Germany seem to be going its own way? Are these orders and societies officially part of the Church, or are they their own separate organizations?

It’s all very confusing to this (hopefully soon to be former) Protestant. I was hoping to come home to a Church that was united, rather than splintered like the Protestants. Or is this sort of like the Pope’s infallibility…where I can have hope and faith that the Holy Spirit will keep the Church headed in the right direction despite our human failings and tendencies to bicker among ourselves? :confused:

I do love our Parish, and it’s members have been so warm and loving to me and my family.
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The more we are united to our Lord Jesus Christ and His teachings through the legitimate authority of the Church (Magisterium), the stronger we are. When individuals veer away from loving obedience and humility then divisions begin. This can be stopped in its tracks through our own individual growth in sanctity.

We are all different personalities and have different weaknesses and gifts. There are religious orders that suit certain people in a way that encourages their growth in holiness. Franciscans, Dominicans, Carmelites, and many more. Their particular focus enhances the Body of Christ, the Church.

I need to focus on the Lord and trust Him to lead me. Our Blessed Mother was given to us at the foot of the cross to be our Mother in the order of grace. Her will is totally united to her Son, and she desires what He desires. She is a loving Mother and great intercessor!

Remember when Jesus appeared in the upper room to his apostles He assured them and us that He leaves us His peace, as only He can give…not as the world does.

May our Lord Jesus Christ continue to lead you on your spiritual journey!

In Jesus and Mary,

Dorothy
 
While I understand your thoughts about unity and differing factions, if you read the Epistles of the New Testament you will see the church has always had differences of beliefs. The issue now are non-biblical teachings are being promoted. In the grand scheme of things, while this looks a little dark, don’t let it dissuade you from joining. Ultimately Jesus will bring things back in line. It may take a while, but the church has always rebounded from corrupt teachings and it will this time as well.
 
Because it is in the nature of human life to divide. Just look at civil or religious history.

The Church as we know it now is remarkably united, but that has not always been the case.

ICXC NIKA
 
You could say fractured, or you could say inclusive. I know inclusive is an overused buzzword these days, but it is actually good in this case. The Catholic Church, this “hospital for sinners” as the saying goes, is large enough for all of us. Under the umbrella of orthodoxy can indeed be found progressives and traditionalists, and a whole lot of people in between. Sometimes one group or another goes too far, and there is schism, but this is actually very rare, and the Church always seeks to bring these people back to the fold whenever possible. While it can seem like the two extremes are constantly bickering, nevertheless, the Barque of St. Peter can carry us all. And the majority of Catholics, all of us in between those two extremes, are just trying to follow Our Lord the best way we can. I hope you do not get discouraged by is often only “special interest groups” within the Church who are very vocal but who do not really represent the vast majority, or the magisterium. I’m glad you are blessed to be in a good, caring parish. I suggest, try to focus more on these good people around you, and on learning the fundamentals of the faith (which do not change).
 
Indeed it would be more likely than not that a billion Catholics would have different opinions. If not that would be scary: a billion zombies.😃

I think you would see different Chief Shepards aka Popes have different priorities. Probably reflecting the issues of the day such as communism, poverty and social justice and so on. Some of the faithful have their own pet missions and when priorities changed as steered by the Pope, some are not quite happy. But I think it is unreasonable to expect that one’s pet projects receiving top attention all the time.

There are many orders and organizations. The mission of each of these orders are different. Do not be mistaken thinking they are different churches like Protestant ones. I took this off google which I thought gives a broad view.

religious-vocation.com/differences_religious_orders.html#.VPRaaiz7LM8

Opus Dei? Read for yourself from their own website opusdei.org/en-us/.
 
I understand your concerns as I have had some of the same thoughts over the past few years and I am a 64 year old cradle Catholic. In my case I determined that I would stay focused on the CCC and attempt the best I could to nourish my faith by learning the Truths. Of course, this site is a great place to go to find support for your journey to the Church and I urge you to come back with your questions and concerns. As you can see by the initial responses we are united. There are preople who want change and they are very vocal, but that is the effect of the secular world on tbeir beliefs not a difference of opinion among faithful Catholics. Praying for you.
 
Why does the Catholic Church seem so fractured? Because when you “open the windows to let in some fresh air,” you risk letting in a foul stench as well. As someone else pointed out, heresies have been with us since Jesus rose from the dead. The recent crop seeks to incorporate modern liberal thought into the Church, but Jesus’ last instruction to his apostles was to “go into the world and preach the Gospel, teaching all that I have taught you.” He did not tell them to “go into the world, find out what is going on, and bring it back for incorporation into my Church.” That is what I call “the Gospel in reverse.” People who do this seem to be those of the more liberal bent who crave constant change without regard to what a particular change will cause. So, the short answer to your question is Original Sin: man making the rules instead of God.

My :twocents:
 
Two points

1: I do agree with the other posters that a big reason for it is because of sin, people choosing their own will, pursuing their own agendas, and taking their eyes off of Christ. I’m not saying every disagreement stems from sin, but some do.

2: I just heard of this little theological nugget called the Christological Constellation. It is a way to explain individuals’ relationship to Christ and the church, and how different functions keep the church in balance. So, even if we were all saints, there would still be different factions, I think, because we all experience Christ differently, and he gives us different jobs to do.

Peace
 
Because the devil goes after those who are close to God.
Think about it…the evil folks he already has in his hip pocket. 🤷
He goes after devout folks and puts questions in their minds…and we, as flawed people, sometimes fall for it. He loves nothing more than to mess with our souls.
Be at peace. God is with the Church, and the fires of hell will never prevail against it.
God bless you, and welcome home!
pianist
 
The 4 Marks of the Church:
  1. It is One. The Magisterium is united in its teaching everywhere, and united to the doctrine before, during, and after Vatican II. Catholic doctrine is true, it’s reliability for me or you is not affected by how many people, or how many Catholics, agree with it. Even if 99% of people thought abortion was ok, that wouldn’t make the knife any less sharp, or the Church’s teaching any less true. The Church’s teaching isn’t subservient to the media. Individual bishops, or whole cultures, sometimes strain at the borders; the Magisterium does listen to them. The Magisterium itself is still united.
  2. It is Holy. The Church’s holiness comes from Christ, not from individuals like me. The Church’s holiness (as a reliable channel of God’s grace) is not affected by the holiness of individual Catholics like the pope, or me, though I should be holier than I am.
  3. It is catholic or Universal. It reaches all ethnicities, cultures, eras, and human conditions. Protestant and Orthodox churches tend to be very, *very *closely tied to a specific culture or even a subculture within the USA, and/or to a certain time period. The vast majority of Protestant churches that have existed have disappeared, or morphed into something totally opposite. In the Catholic Church, you bump into many centuries, many ways of thinking, many differences. It’s easy to appear “united” if you pick 99 people exactly like you. That’s not Catholicism.
  4. It is Apostolic.
 
Well really, the Church is not fixed in stone, it exists in the real world. It influences the world and is influenced by it albeit very slowly! That is kind of the meaning of being a pilgrim church. We are still moving, growing and becoming, not only as individuals but as a global community. God is in charge, always has been.
 
Welcome 🙂

You have described two different phenomena: 1. the distressing number of vocal sinners/dissenters in the Church; and 2. different “flavors” or spirituality.

WRT the first group, sadly, there are some or even many in the Church who think that if the Church makes it easier on people, that would lead to better things. Higher numbers or whatever. Unfortunately, this “improvement” would be off-set by greater numbers who continue in sin and end up in Hell, so it’s important to stick with the true teachings of the Church!

WRT the second, it is simply differences in expression of spirituality. As an example, think of a large company. They need bookkeepers, salesmen, people who make the product, etc. In the same way, God needs people to do different things. There are missionaries and there are those who pray for the missionaries. There are those who study and those who help the poor. Etc.
 
unstoppable_II said:
What is meant by that?
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This example might help:

The Office of Peter and the Structure of the Church by Hans Urs von Balthasar:

“More than ever it is made obvious here that in the mysterium of the Church the parts are clearly articulated and yet inseparable from each other. Peter needs the Johannine love to give the Lord the answer worthy of his office, and he also receives this love. Hence, from now on, Johannine love has its place in Peter, but missions given by Jesus do not cease. In the unfathomable mystery of Jesus’ good pleasure, John retains his own mission, distinct from that of Peter. One can say neither that love turns into office (i.e., that office has the sole claim to love) nor that office and love are two structurally separate and opposing elements.”

The task of “Office” given to Peter, and the task of “Love” given to John balance each other out. If Peter is completely absorbed by his mission, he will cease to Love Jesus authentically, he is challenged to do so by John, and if John looses himself in his own Love of Christ, he would become isolated from the rest of the Church. He is challenged by Peter’s “Office” to remain in community.

Take it with a grain of salt, (maybe I’m not interpreting it correctly, I literally just started learning about it two days ago), but it’s interesting.
 
ForeverJoy said:
I am in RCIA, so please forgive me if my question is rude. But one thing that drew me to the Church was that she has a set of beliefs/teachings that have survived for the last 2000 years, basically without change despite our changing world. Especially in today’s society where many Protestant churches seem more divided and worldly every day.

Yet, the more I read and try to learn about the Church, the more confused I get. There seems to be different factions or something, that want to change the direction of the church. There are liberal ones, who want to change the church’s view on marriage and homosexual unions, while others that say the Church is too liberal already. I’ve seen people complain that it’s too traditional, or that it went downhill after Vatican II, whatever that means.

And this is on top of not understanding why there are different religious orders and lay societies, and what the heck is Opus Dei? Why do some Bishops seem in opposition to the teaching of the church by the things they say in the media? And why does the Church in Germany seem to be going its own way? Are these orders and societies officially part of the Church, or are they their own separate organizations?

It’s all very confusing to this (hopefully soon to be former) Protestant. I was hoping to come home to a Church that was united, rather than splintered like the Protestants. Or is this sort of like the Pope’s infallibility…where I can have hope and faith that the Holy Spirit will keep the Church headed in the right direction despite our human failings and tendencies to bicker among ourselves? :confused:

I do love our Parish, and it’s members have been so warm and loving to me and my family.
Click to expand...
The Church herself if not fractured, but the people in in can be. After all she has sinners who prefer their own way not hers. The Church’s teachings are the same today as they were over 2,000 years ago when Our Lord founded her. The Holy Spirit protects Christ’s Church and us too if we let the Holy Spirit work in our lives. Trust Christ’s Church, she has survived so many trials and will continue to do so till the end of time. Prayers for your journey. God Bless, Memaw
 
ForeverJoy said:
I am in RCIA, so please forgive me if my question is rude. But one thing that drew me to the Church was that she has a set of beliefs/teachings that have survived for the last 2000 years, basically without change despite our changing world. Especially in today’s society where many Protestant churches seem more divided and worldly every day.

Yet, the more I read and try to learn about the Church, the more confused I get. There seems to be different factions or something, that want to change the direction of the church. There are liberal ones, who want to change the church’s view on marriage and homosexual unions, while others that say the Church is too liberal already. I’ve seen people complain that it’s too traditional, or that it went downhill after Vatican II, whatever that means.

And this is on top of not understanding why there are different religious orders and lay societies, and what the heck is Opus Dei? Why do some Bishops seem in opposition to the teaching of the church by the things they say in the media? And why does the Church in Germany seem to be going its own way? Are these orders and societies officially part of the Church, or are they their own separate organizations?

It’s all very confusing to this (hopefully soon to be former) Protestant. I was hoping to come home to a Church that was united, rather than splintered like the Protestants. Or is this sort of like the Pope’s infallibility…where I can have hope and faith that the Holy Spirit will keep the Church headed in the right direction despite our human failings and tendencies to bicker among ourselves? :confused:

I do love our Parish, and it’s members have been so warm and loving to me and my family.
Click to expand...
There are two distinct things here: legitimate (even necessary) diversity, and dissent.

For the first, the mission of the church is large, and different people focus on different parts of it. This is fine and good, and results in different orders and the like. So to, there are different legitimate ways of approaching God, and some people get more out of some than others. They also tend to congregate together. This results in many groups that all profess the same belief, but who focus their work towards differing parts, or prefer different ways of expressing this same belief. Opus Dei, for example, is a completely legitimate group that tries to help its members grow in holiness in its way. There are many other groups with the same goal, but with different ways of approaching it, and some these ways will work for some people and not others.

By itself, this is fine and good. We need charity, teaching, preaching, prayer, all of that. The problem comes from the fact that we are human and susceptible to pride.

There is no problem whatsoever in saying that the Church needs to do all of these things, and I will focus on X. The problem comes when I decide that my cause, or my method of expressing the common faith, is not just m focus but the single cause to which other aspects of the Faith can be sacrificed - when I elevate my area from a focus to an idol.

When this happens, not only do I focus on X, but I try to work towards X in ways that contradict other truths that are not my focus. This is the cause of true disunity. Note that it is not even necessary that my focus be a bad thing, or something that ought not be accomplished, all that is required is that I decide that this thing that I’m good at and like doing is so much more important than these other things that I’m not good at or don’t like so much that I hurt them while I work on my thing. Again, pride.

And humans do that. It is important to note, however, that these things are just a reflection of the Church’s human members. The Church itself is united, in spite its imperfect members. To see these fractures among us, the people, as fractures in the Church is to in some way fall for the (perhaps unintentional) lies that the imperfect people are saying - to consider that some of us who have fallen to pride might be right and that some of these issues can be pursued to the detriment of the truth itself, and that the only question is to find out which ones.

But that’s not how it works. These divisions among the faithful are not actually divisions in the Church, but rather groups of people failing to live up to what the Church proclaims in a wide variety of ways. Which is nothing new.

Or in short, the Church is united, the fractures between her members are just groups of people being stupid. (And I suspect most of us are guilty of that from time to time.)
 
People are messy by nature. We have always had sinners in the Church, and heretics. It’s just the way it goes.

The core unwavering center of the Church is its doctrine.

We have just tons of devotions, from which anyone is free to pick and choose. That’s why there are different religious orders. They are all in the Church, but worship and pray their own way, with a different emphasis.
 
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