Why does the Father beget the Son?

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So I accept that God is a Trinity because that’s what I’m required to believe and because it’s infallibly defined as true. However, I am struggling with this doctrine. Why does the Father beget the Son? Why isn’t the Father content with just his ownself? Why does the Holy Spirit then proceed from the Father and the Son? I understand that God is a Trinity, but I don’t understand why. Also, when Jesus is present in the Eucharist, how does he become present there while not separating from the other two persons of the Trinity?
 
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The Trinity is necessary because it stems from God’s very nature. Because of what God is, he must necessarily be Trinity.

The quick version. It’s because God has revealed himself as Knowledge, and he has revealed himself as Love.

Now, keeping in mind that there is no “before” and “after” in God, we must necessarily proceed in that manner because of our limitations of language and time.

“Before” anything else, God, being a Person, had to have an object of his Knowledge, but the only object of his Knowledge is himself. So God forms an Idea of himself. Now an Idea is a concept, and image, if you will, of the object. I have an idea of myself, and that idea is in a way, an image of myself. But my idea of myself, while like me, isn’t myself, because it is inadequate. I do not have the means or capability of forming a perfect idea of myself. But there is nothing inadequate in God, and his Idea of himself must itself be perfect, Adequate, infinite. The Idea is distinct from the Thinker, but the Idea must necessarily be infinite, perfect, and adequate. But there is only one infinite, and perfect. This Idea must necessarily also be God for God is incapable of forming an inadequate idea of himself. This Idea is the Logos. It is distinct from the Thinker, but just as infinite, perfect, and almighty. It is God, but also a distinct Person within the Godhead.

It must necessarily be, otherwise, God’s Knowledge is inadequate, and if there is any inadequacy, then he is not God.

Now, it must necessarily follow that these two Persons within the Godhead must share a bond of love with each other. We love too, but our love is necessarily limited by our own finite nature. Well, the Love shared between Father and Son cannot be less than infinite. It must necessarily be perfect and not lacking in anything. For this Love to be perfect and infinite, it would itself have to be Divine, and therefore, a Person. This is the Holy Spirit. It has to be, otherwise, we will have to claim there is something imperfect in the Godhead, and that is by definition impossible.

And again, while we have describe it in sequential terms, all this is taking place in an eternal Now.

As for Jesus in the Eucharist, he is not separate. Where one Person is, so must the others Persons necessarily be, because God is simple; he has no parts. The substance of the Eucharist is Christ of course, but where Christ is, the entire Trinity is there.
 
To address the question about the Eucharist:

“Saint Cyril of Jerusalem, in his Catecheses, states that we "call upon God in his mercy to send his Holy Spirit upon the offerings before us, to transform the bread into the body of Christ and the wine into the blood of Christ. Whatever the Holy Spirit touches is sanctified and completely transformed”

Here is my understanding (so far)… It seems they are all involved in transubstantiation in separate ways. Jesus is of the same substance of the Father and has thus always been with him before being conceived and born in human form. The Holy Spirit springs from them. It is dependent on the existence of the Father and the Son.
 
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His answer is precisely correct.

Many people are not used to such philosophical and theological points.

but porthos did an outstanding job.

As Augustine said: The thought that God has about Himself is perfect, complete, so perfect it is a Person, not a mere image when we look in a mirror.

And the love that God has for His Image, the Word, is so perfect, so full and complete it too is a Person, the Holy Spirit.

This sort of reasoning reveals the two “operative” attributes of God: Knowledge (intellect) and Love (will).

It’s because our understanding of “Person” (and intellect and will and love) is inadequate that we have trouble in using “Person” in the Divine sense.
 
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Ok so what it seems to me that you’re saying is that the Father imagines himself and because the imagination of himself is so perfect it becomes a real person? And then the Holy Spirit is the love that flows between them? Because if that’s the case, why doesn’t this process repeat infinitely between the different persons of the Trinity until God is not a Trinity but an Infinitynity?
 
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ajac said:
So I accept that God is a Trinity because that’s what I’m required to believe and because it’s infallibly defined as true. However, I am struggling with this doctrine. Why does the Father beget the Son? Why isn’t the Father content with just his ownself? Why does the Holy Spirit then proceed from the Father and the Son? I understand that God is a Trinity, but I don’t understand why. Also, when Jesus is present in the Eucharist, how does he become present there while not separating from the other two persons of the Trinity?
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It is not something that occurs at a particular time, but is eternally so. The Holy Trinity is eternal and uncreated.
 
Ok this is really hard for me to grasp. Something I definitely won’t understand fully til heaven. Can someone recommend a good book or writing or video on this topic that includes all the Trinitarian theology and vocabulary etc?
 
Ok can someone recommend a good book that explains all of this? With all the Trinitarian philosophy/vocab etc
 
Blessings
This comes down to FAITH. God existence is valid to all believers. God beget His Son through the Holy Spirit w Mary. Adam and Eve were disobedient and cast out of Eden. This disobedience is our originional sin. Our relationship w God was broken.
In order for our Father to commune w us, again, He sent His Son (a part of Him) to become man( His Creation). There had to be a sacrifice to open the relationship w God, again. Jesus was it. Jesus was the second Adam. He loved us that much to send Jesus to suffer for us to gain heaven. Jesus agreed. IF YOU CAN LIFT THIS CUP FATHER? NOT MY WILL BUT THINE.
AFTER JESUS ASCENDED, He sent the Holy Spirit to be our Comforter.
I hope that helps.
In Christ’s love
Tweedlealice
 
ajac said:
Ok can someone recommend a good book that explains all of this? With all the Trinitarian philosophy/vocab etc
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Catechism
251 In order to articulate the dogma of the Trinity, the Church had to develop her own terminology with the help of certain notions of philosophical origin: “substance”, “person” or “hypostasis”, “relation” and so on. In doing this, she did not submit the faith to human wisdom, but gave a new and unprecedented meaning to these terms, which from then on would be used to signify an ineffable mystery, “infinitely beyond all that we can humanly understand”.82

252 The Church uses
  • (I) the term “substance” (rendered also at times by “essence” or “nature”) to designate the divine being in its unity,
  • (II) the term “person” or “hypostasis” to designate the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the real distinction among them, and
  • (III) the term “relation” to designate the fact that their distinction lies in the relationship of each to the others.
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ajac said:
Ok so what it seems to me that you’re saying is that the Father imagines himself and because the imagination of himself is so perfect it becomes a real person? And then the Holy Spirit is the love that flows between them? Because if that’s the case, why doesn’t this process repeat infinitely between the different persons of the Trinity until God is not a Trinity but an Infinitynity?
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Because as I said, there is no before and after in God and therefore no repetition. Because God is eternal, there are no processes in God.
 
Blessings,
There are many wise words there. But, infininity?!
If the Holy Spirit continues to flow back and forth between Father and Son, implying changing their format, wouldn’t it be a Singilarity turning in on itself?
But that would be finite.
Some teachings in Scripture are explained w accumulated statements or sentences.
THE FATHER IS IN ME AND I IN HIM. That’s easy but equals 2. I had thought Jesus could only endure the suffering and death b/c Holy Spirit strengthened Him Spiritually. But, He said in post Resurrection appearances that He had to go so the Spirit could come. 2+1=3 but, not together at same time?
Genesis I, helps a little further. (God is a Spirit w/o shape or form. John’s gospel=JESUS is the WORD.
John.1. [1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.)
Back to Genesis: 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
So, mathematically, the church scholars had to explain this. God said to Abraham, He was 1 God. Our Judaic Hx=1 God.
God created! Jesus speaks. The Spirit moves.
3=1. There are other connections but this satisfied me. This is a Mystery of Faith. God is a Mystery of Faith. Find Peace.
In Christ’s love
Tweedlealice
 
porthos11 said:
The Trinity is necessary because it stems from God’s very nature. Because of what God is, he must necessarily be Trinity.

The quick version. It’s because God has revealed himself as Knowledge, and he has revealed himself as Love.

Now, keeping in mind that there is no “before” and “after” in God, we must necessarily proceed in that manner because of our limitations of language and time.

“Before” anything else, God, being a Person, had to have an object of his Knowledge, but the only object of his Knowledge is himself. So God forms an Idea of himself. Now an Idea is a concept, and image, if you will, of the object. I have an idea of myself, and that idea is in a way, an image of myself. But my idea of myself, while like me, isn’t myself, because it is inadequate. I do not have the means or capability of forming a perfect idea of myself. But there is nothing inadequate in God, and his Idea of himself must itself be perfect, Adequate, infinite. The Idea is distinct from the Thinker, but the Idea must necessarily be infinite, perfect, and adequate. But there is only one infinite, and perfect. This Idea must necessarily also be God for God is incapable of forming an inadequate idea of himself. This Idea is the Logos. It is distinct from the Thinker, but just as infinite, perfect, and almighty. It is God, but also a distinct Person within the Godhead.

It must necessarily be, otherwise, God’s Knowledge is inadequate, and if there is any inadequacy, then he is not God.

Now, it must necessarily follow that these two Persons within the Godhead must share a bond of love with each other. We love too, but our love is necessarily limited by our own finite nature. Well, the Love shared between Father and Son cannot be less than infinite. It must necessarily be perfect and not lacking in anything. For this Love to be perfect and infinite, it would itself have to be Divine, and therefore, a Person. This is the Holy Spirit. It has to be, otherwise, we will have to claim there is something imperfect in the Godhead, and that is by definition impossible.

And again, while we have describe it in sequential terms, all this is taking place in an eternal Now.

As for Jesus in the Eucharist, he is not separate. Where one Person is, so must the others Persons necessarily be, because God is simple; he has no parts. The substance of the Eucharist is Christ of course, but where Christ is, the entire Trinity is there.
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Why God must be in love with His knowledge? I also didn’t get how did you argue in favor of Son? Is Son God’s knowledge or Logos?
 
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