Why don't priests "correct" the laity?

[hausofferni]

I mean in the sense that, they correct our wrong doings. People walking in late to mass, people walking by the tabernacle and not giving any reverence to our Lord. People not bowing or making any sign of reverence before receiving Holy Communion. People leaving mass early, or leaving as soon as they receive Holy Communion. Are people forgetting to humble themselves before God? This seems to happen at every parish I visit. When people walk in late to mass, during our priests homily, he stares at them and stays quiet until they they find their seats, and he usually turns a bit red because of how rude they’re being. Are priests allowed to correct things like this? Or allowed to advise us? Are people forgetting??

 

[pianistclare]

They are allowed to correct, of course.
Many don’t want to turn the Mass into a battle ground.
At our parish, the ushers take care of latecomers by having them listen to the readings in the Narthex (it’s piped in) and then allowing them to take their seats before the homily begins.
I’ve found that when we teach these things to the children in formation, they pass it to their parents, who appear to have forgotten many of the things you mention.

My pet peeve is slamming the kneelers.

 

[Padres1969]

I mean in the sense that, they correct our wrong doings. People walking in late to mass, people walking by the tabernacle and not giving any reverence to our Lord. People not bowing or making any sign of reverence before receiving Holy Communion. People leaving mass early, or leaving as soon as they receive Holy Communion. Are people forgetting to humble themselves before God? This seems to happen at every parish I visit. When people walk in late to mass, during our priests homily, he stares at them and stays quiet until they they find their seats, and he usually turns a bit red because of how rude they’re being. Are priests allowed to correct things like this? Or allowed to advise us? Are people forgetting??

Probably to avoid causing a fuss during the mass. And because not everything you list is normative or even bad per se.

Is getting to mass late bad, sure. But sometimes it’s unavoidable or not necessarily the fault of the parishioner. Would it be better for them to not attend at all if they’re delayed in arriving or for a priest to publicly chastise them for something not necessarily in their control?

Or for now bowing or making any sign of reverence before receiving communion, I don’t know where your formation was, but for mine we were not taught to do anything of the sort. You walk up, you receive the Eucharist by hand, you say “Amen”, you walk away. That’s what I was taught is a normal reception of the Eucharist. Anything else was additional and not a required part of normal reception.

 

[pianistclare]

Probably to avoid causing a fuss during the mass. And because not everything you list is normative or even bad per se.

Is getting to mass late bad, sure. But sometimes it’s unavoidable or not necessarily the fault of the parishioner. Would it be better for them to not attend at all if they’re delayed in arriving or for a priest to publicly chastise them for something not necessarily in their control?

Or for now bowing or making any sign of reverence before receiving communion, I don’t know where your formation was, but for mine we were not taught to do anything of the sort. You walk up, you receive the Eucharist by hand, you say “Amen”, you walk away. That’s what I was taught is a normal reception of the Eucharist. Anything else was additional and not a required part of normal reception.

We Catholics are taught to bow before receiving.

 

[LethalMouse]

This sounds like the anger of the kind of people that scare people away from church.

Maybe some have legit reasons to be late

Maybe some honestly forgot to do a gesture or were rushing through nervous to be seen by those who would want them corrected for every mistep.

Lets not even get into the somewhat trying Cathoics. Someone who just started going back to church etc and one person like you would send them packing, but letting them be welcome in church allows them time to find their way.

 

[pianistclare]

Also, back in the day…priests corrected people A LOT. And were pretty much despised and not conversed with because of it. Mercy. It’s a real thing.
Of course we want people to behave properly, but if you have to correct DURING a Mass? That ship has long left the port.

 

[Padres1969]

We Catholics are taught to bow before receiving.

You Catholics were not always taught to do so. I certainly wasn’t when I was a Catholic youth undergoing formation in the 80’s and 90’s. Bowing when crossing the altar in front of the tabernacle sure, but not before reception of the Eucharist. Now that may have changed, but to expect everyone to know that when I still hear people say, “and also with you” at Catholic masses is likely asking too much. And it certainly isn’t worthy of chastising them when they’re only doing what they were taught to do by the RCC in the first place

 

[Don_Ruggero]

We Catholics are taught to bow before receiving.

This is correct.

I cannot answer the question as to why people do not seek out and comply with the directives of the bishops on the gesture that is prescribed. For the Americans reading the forum, the directive of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops is clear:

The General Instruction asks each country’s Conference of Bishops to determine the posture to be used for the reception of Communion and the act of reverence to be made by each person as he or she receives Communion. In the United States, the body of Bishops determined that Communion should be received standing, and that a bow is the act of reverence made by those receiving. These norms may require some adjustment on the part of those who have been used to other practices, however the significance of unity in posture and gesture as a symbol of our unity as members of the one body of Christ should be the governing factor in our own actions.

usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/order-of-mass/liturgy-of-the-eucharist/the-reception-of-holy-communion-at-mass.cfm

 

[Don_Ruggero]

You Catholics were not always taught to do so. I certainly wasn’t when I was a Catholic youth undergoing formation in the 80’s and 90’s. Bowing when crossing the altar in front of the tabernacle sure, but not before reception of the Eucharist.

Well…I am unable to say why you would have had that experience wherever you were.

What I can say, as I remember the change very well, is to quote Eucharisticum Mysterium from the old Sacred Congregation of Rite. It was document issued in May 1967. As a priest, I was part of the implementation of this directive and the instruction remained a document on which I lectured until I retired as a professor of liturgy and sacraments.

*34. The Way of Receiving Communion

a) In accordance with the custom of the Church, Communion may be received by the faithful either kneeling or standing. One or the other way is to be chosen, according to the decision of the episcopal conference, bearing in mind all the circumstances, above all the number of the faithful and the arrangement of the churches. The faithful should willingly adopt the method indicated by their pastors, so that Communion may truly be a sign of the brotherly union of all those who share in the same table of the Lord.

b) When the faithful communicate kneeling, no other sign of reverence toward the Blessed Sacrament is required, since kneeling is itself a sign of adoration.

When they receive Communion standing, it is strongly recommended that, coming up in procession, they should make a sign of reverence before receiving the Blessed Sacrament. This should be done at the right time and place, so that the order of people going to and from Communion may not be disrupted.*

And, actually, you should have been told to bow in passing an altar without the reserved sacrament. If the tabernacle was on axis with the altar, the instruction should have been to genuflect. Except during a liturgical action when one genuflected toward the tabernacle at the beginning and at the end but not every time one passed before the tabernacle; in that case, the prescription of the rubric was to bow. The emphasis was to be on the synaxis rather than the static Presence, according to the liturgical norm.

 

[Beryllos]

My pet peeve is slamming the kneelers.

I’m glad to report that our Confirmation class improved in that regard quite a lot throughout the year. They are required to attend a monthly “Teen Mass” during the school year, and many may have been returning after several years away, and shame on the parents for that! At the first Teen Mass, the kneelers went down like rolling thunder. It was truly stunning. By the end of the year, it was down to the normal few thuds. Not only that, but church behavior in other areas also improved.

 

[rfournier103]

How about people who walk out as soon as the priest says, “the Mass has ended” or even immediately after receiving the Eucharist???

My wife is a cantor at our parish. Every Sunday she’s singing her heart out and the minuscule number of people who keep singing until the end of the closing hymn can barely hear her with all the talking and commotion going on. Some Sundays it sounds like we’re at Fenway Park during the closing hymn.

I can completely understand people coming in late. Things happen. I can even understand a handful of people who have to leave early to get to work or some other such thing. But to have the church darn near empty before the second verse of the closing hymn is disrespectful and rude. I am DYING to say something to our pastor because our music minister seems to “never have the chance” to bring it up, but my wife has begged me not to because I’m a little blunt sometimes.

I’ve seen this my entire life in almost every single parish I’ve visited - and not once have I ever heard a priest make a peep about it. Very disappointing.

Is it because they (the clergy) are afraid that people will stop coming to Mass altogether if they get a little verbal slap on the wrist? I know that in the 21st Century church-going Christians in the Western World are a rapidly dying breed; but I would love to know where all the reverence and respect went.

 

[pianistclare]

I’m glad to report that our Confirmation class improve in that regard quite a lot throughout the year. They are required to attend a monthly “Teen Mass” during the school year, and many may have been returning after several years away. At the first Teen Mass, the kneelers went down like rolling thunder. It was truly stunning. By the end of the year, it was down to the normal few thuds.

Oh, it’s HUGE crashing sound at our parish. Nobody seems to notice or care.
Drives me nuts. Imagine Good Friday, “let us kneel…Let us stand”. A couple pf DOZEN TIMES!!!
I instruct our First Communicants each year to be an example for their folks. I figure another 2 centuries, we may see some improvement!
My former pastor asked why it bothered me so. I asked in return: When you go to someone’s home for a nice dinner, do you knock around their dining room chairs at the table?
He said, no, I actually never thought about it that way.
Well…we’re in God’s house, no?


God bless. We all have our pet peeves I suppose.

 

[Padres1969]

Well…I am unable to say why you would have had that experience wherever you were.

What I can say, as I remember the change very well, is to quote Eucharisticum Mysterium from the old Sacred Congregation of Rite. It was document issued in May 1967. As a priest, I was part of the implementation of this directive and the instruction remained a document on which I lectured until I retired as a professor of liturgy and sacraments.

*34. The Way of Receiving Communion

a) In accordance with the custom of the Church, Communion may be received by the faithful either kneeling or standing. One or the other way is to be chosen, according to the decision of the episcopal conference, bearing in mind all the circumstances, above all the number of the faithful and the arrangement of the churches. The faithful should willingly adopt the method indicated by their pastors, so that Communion may truly be a sign of the brotherly union of all those who share in the same table of the Lord.

b) When the faithful communicate kneeling, no other sign of reverence toward the Blessed Sacrament is required, since kneeling is itself a sign of adoration.

When they receive Communion standing, it is strongly recommended that, coming up in procession, they should make a sign of reverence before receiving the Blessed Sacrament. This should be done at the right time and place, so that the order of people going to and from Communion may not be disrupted.*

Probably because “strongly recommended” wasn’t “required” which is apparently the case now. Since it wasn’t required, it wasn’t taught. My formation may be an example of why the more recent change was made because what wasn’t required was often not being taught. I doubt my experience was that uncommon if the USCCB was forced to make the change they did. But back to the topic at hand, it seems odd to want to chastise people who weren’t taught the current rules.

As for the idea of slamming kneelers, this one does get ornery, and isn’t an exclusively Catholic issue either. That said, again it’s not always the person’s fault. For example my childhood Catholic parish had little gas shocks on the majority of kneelers so if you let them go at apex they’d quietly settle back into the stored position. However a few pews had lost or broken shocks and without them, gravity would do it’s thing and people would get caught out as a result. Or from my current Episcopal parish, about 90% of the pews have a mid pew support under them that the kneeler will rest up against just beyond the vertical when putting them back. But the other 10% the support is missing from the pew, and as a result if you don’t notice that and put the pew back gently, it’ll go past the stops and right to the floor. Many often get caught out by that. While both were distracting, I hardly see them as worth stopping mass to address. Maybe a note during the announcements next time?

 

[Beryllos]

How about people who walk out as soon as the priest says, “the Mass has ended” or even immediately after receiving the Eucharist???

Well, I like to sing, and I would stay even if we sang all the verses, but I figure it’s not unreasonable for others to hit the road as soon as they hear “The Mass has ended. Go in peace…”

After all, he did say “go.”

 

[pianistclare]

Well, I like to sing, and I would stay even if we sang all the verses, but I figure it’s not unreasonable for others to hit the road as soon as they hear “The Mass has ended. Go in peace…”

Well that’s true…in the Liturgy and Sacraments forum you’ll find oodles of people who insist that the closing or recessional hymn is NOT part of the Mass.


We’re a stiff necked people aren’t we?

 

[rfournier103]

Probably because “strongly recommended” wasn’t “required” which is apparently the case now. Since it wasn’t required, it wasn’t taught. My formation may be an example of why the more recent change was made because what wasn’t required was often not being taught.

Same here.

I didn’t notice that people were bowing until I was almost 40.

 

[rfournier103]

Well, I like to sing, and I would stay even if we sang all the verses, but I figure it’s not unreasonable for others to hit the road as soon as they hear "The Mass has ended. Go in peace…"

After all, he did say “go.”

I think that when they re-tooled the Mass from the Tridentine Mass to the Novus Ordo they could have put a little more thought into that part.

If it’s not a required part of the Mass, then why don’t we just skip it? Are we supposed to stay or not? Is it optional?

 

[Padres1969]

Same here.

I didn’t notice that people were bowing until I was almost 40.

I didn’t notice people bowing at all until I saw it mentioned on this site. Between people not doing so and others being subtle during the comparatively few Catholic masses I attend since leaving the Church I’d have never picked up on that change. Which shouldn’t be surprising. As I mentioned earlier, I still here quite a few people who have stuck with “and also with you” and the other responses that had become second nature. I mean I can still say the Catholic mass verbatim in the old US form so I can see how for many it is hard to change something that had become so automatic.

 

[Padres1969]

I think that when they re-tooled the Mass from the Tridentine Mass to the Novus Ordo they could have put a little more thought into that part.

If it’s not a required part of the Mass, then why don’t we just skip it? Are we supposed to stay or not? Is it optional?

Not one to tell Catholics how they should perform their mass, but my Episcopal Church found a novel way around this issue. The closing hymn during masses with music is performed during the procession and the “Go in peace to love and serve the Lord” (or the equivalent being used that day), is said after the procession has reached the back of the church and the hymn has concluded. That way mass hasn’t actually ended until the priest has reached the door. I’ve noticed it keeps most of the parishioners in their seats since it would be very obvious they’re ducking out if they do so during the procession.

 

[rfournier103]

I didn’t notice people bowing at all until I saw it mentioned on this site. Between people not doing so and others being subtle during the comparatively few Catholic masses I attend since leaving the Church I’d have never picked up on that change. Which shouldn’t be surprising. As I mentioned earlier, I still here quite a few people who have stuck with “and also with you” and the other responses that had become second nature. I mean I can still say the Catholic mass verbatim in the old US form so I can see how for many it is hard to change something that had become so automatic.

I went out and bought a hand-missal back in 2012 because I couldn’t master the changes to the Mass (and also because reading along keeps my mind from wandering).

I’ve learned all of the new parts and responses by heart since then except for the Nicene Creed. Still don’t have that memorized.