Why dont the number of jews grow?

[meltzerboy]

When I said “everyone else doesn’t matter,” I did not mean that, according to Judaism, anyone who isn’t Jewish is considered less than nothing by the Jewish god. I never said that. Judaism teaches that their god has chosen Jews as its “chosen people,” whatever their number. According to Judaism, their god can also work through “other” people. It’s not necessary to be Jewish to have their god do what it wants to do.

Fair enough then. I must have misinterpreted what you wrote.

 

[Culurecatholic]

Fair enough then. I must have misinterpreted what you wrote.

Thank you.

 

[Richard_White]

Stop attacking the Jews, they are not in the business of converting people.

I feel thlike same way, because I was raised Catholic, I do not have a reason to go to church other than for myself.

I am usually very wrong in these arguments, so I beg your indulgence.

Actually, our faith is a dynamic one, and Jesus calls us every day to witness to the Gospel with our lives. In so doing, we are evangelizing all and making known to everyone the “genius of Catholicism” (in the words of Matthew Kelly).

Also, thanks to meltzerboy for his response to this question, as I was looking forward to.

 

[meltzerboy]

Actually, our faith is a dynamic one, and Jesus calls us every day to witness to the Gospel with our lives. In so doing, we are evangelizing all and making known to everyone the “genius of Catholicism” (in the words of Matthew Kelly).

Also, thanks to meltzerboy for his response to this question, as I was looking forward to.

You’re very welcome. But you should realize I speak only as one Jew and layman.

 

[commenter]

I think these are all good reasons. Of course, Orthodox Jews are still having larger families but this is apparently not enough to offset the large number of cultural Jews who have virtually no connection with the religion. However, at the same time, more unassimilated Jews than ever before are turning toward Orthodox Judaism, which is growing, while those Jews who are Reform are also moving toward more ritualistic aspects of their own movement than previously. The older Reform Judaism, shorn of religious rituals, is dwindling, as is Conservative Judaism. So there seem to be several, often conflicting, forces in play.

Your last sentence is crucial, though your whole post is relevant. As usual, we want a simple answer, a single trend, an obvious cause and affect. But real life is different.
On the one hand people are moving out of ethnic neigborhoods, often towards sunbelt areas with sprawl, and very little access to much formal Jewish activities. On the other hand, the Internet offers ways for like minded people to stay in contact as a group, much easier than before. I think the low birth rate is factor for all religious groups, with a few exceptions, such as Orthodox Jews.
I think “the numbers” seem to stay the same - about 12 million worldwide - because it is so hard to measure with this many variables: ethnicity vs religion; persons who are half Jewish, half other ethnic (or other religion); etc. So the estimators tend to use the same estimates.

 

[psalm90]

Well, there’s the Jewish perspective and the Christian-Catholic perspective. For the latter, we refer to Romans 12 (isn’t it) where Paul talks about how important Judaism is in God’s plan.

Roy Shoeman (“showman”) is a Jewish convert to Catholicism and speaks about the topic of this thread, trends. I think he has a website, there are youtube videos featuring him, and of course his groundbreaking book, Salvation is from the Jews.

They all speak better to the subject than I can. As a preview, though, Shoeman discusses the conversion of Jews to Christianity before the Messiah comes, to us, Jesus in judgment. And he points out that there are congregations of Messianic Jews in a lot, perhaps many of the cities of the state of Israel.

He hypothesizes that God has maintained the identity of the Jewish people as a reminder of his covenants and of the divine plan for salvation, as Paul might say, Jews first, then Gentiles. He mentions that all the tribes and nations mentioned in the Bible have vanished – the Jebuzzites, the Hittities, the Amelekites, etc. – gone, but not the Jews.

He converted to Catholicism rather than any other Christian denomination or the orthodox churches, because, as I understand him, he thought the Catholic Church far and away was the logical continuation and consequence of Judaism.

aside: I am interested in the Jewish scriptures as much as the New Testament scriptures. I just received in the mail today, my latest book choices from the Jewish Publication Society, Alan T. Levenson’s Joseph: portraits through the Ages, and Rabbi Niles Elliot Goldstein’s*** Eight Questions fo Faith***:*** Biblical Challenges that Guide and Ground our Lives. ***

 

[StGerardMajella]

why dont the number of jews grow??

The real issue is secularism. Secular society promotes smaller families, contraception, even abortion. The birth rate is a problem all over secular Europe, as well as in the U.S.

Orthodox Jewish families tend to have large families. They also are deeply religious, and take their faith very seriously.

 

[psalm90]

The real issue is secularism. Secular society promotes smaller families, contraception, even abortion. The birth rate is a problem all over secular Europe, as well as in the U.S.

Orthodox Jewish families tend to have large families. They also are deeply religious, and take their faith very seriously.

Secularism, militant humanism, etc. the pace of life that attack the sacredness of life. The seeming irrelevance of ancient religion (including the progression of science), whatever it takes to turn our backs on God.

The Jewish scriptures (Old Testament) is a history of man’s infidelity to God, God’s fidelity to mankind. Therein lies a lesson for us all.

 

[commenter]

The real issue is secularism. Secular society promotes smaller families, contraception, even abortion. The birth rate is a problem all over secular Europe, as well as in the U.S.

Orthodox Jewish families tend to have large families. They also are deeply religious, and take their faith very seriously.

Why don’t the number of Christians in general, or the the number of Catholics grow? Similar reasons, mostly related to secularism, and the Media. The old ethnic neighborhoods fostered lots of Catholic-to-Catholic marriages, but they are mostly gone.

The closest Christian parallel to Orthodox Jewish families would be the home schoolers, now Catholics as well as evangelicals. The Catholic families I know are either glued to the media and its values - or else distrust the media and seek traditional sources of guidance. I suspect the same may be true of Jewish people.

 

[Richard_White]

You’re very welcome. But you should realize I speak only as one Jew and layman.

Indeed. Just recognizing that there are not many Jews on this forum, I figured that looking to you, a very vocal forum member on a wide array of topics, would be good for the Jewish take on this subject.

God bless!

 

[StGerardMajella]

The closest Christian parallel to Orthodox Jewish families would be the home schoolers, now Catholics as well as evangelicals. The Catholic families I know are either glued to the media and its values - or else distrust the media and seek traditional sources of guidance. I suspect the same may be true of Jewish people.

From what I understand, most Jews in the U.S. are Reform Jews, which is a more liberal branch of Judaism compared to Orthodox Judaism. The Orthodox tend to be much more conservative, hold more traditional values, and have large families. They are very religious, tend to shun secularism and the media, and adhere to a rigorous code of behavior. In many Orthodox communities, a dress code is enforced, television and movies are off-limits, and other similar restrictions apply.

In Catholicism, the closest analogous subset of Catholicism that mirrors the Orthodox might be the pre-Vatican II adherents to the traditional Latin Mass. It is not uncommon to find very large families in these traditional parishes, and similar conservative values.