A
abcdefg
Guest
God surely knew Adam and Eve would be tempted into a sin. why he still left the serpent there? Is there an answer other than “We can’t read God’s mind?”
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X
Xenos
Guest
Well, God knew Adam and Eve would sin. Why did He even bother to create mankind in the first place?
Perhaps that question will give you some food for thought about your question (which, BTW, is a good question!).
Perhaps that question will give you some food for thought about your question (which, BTW, is a good question!).
J
jdnation
Guest
Well actually as crazy as my idea sounds, God couldn’t know! 
Cuz what’s there to know unless what you’re trying to know exists in the first place?
Confused?
Well there is the idea of how God is able to be omniscient. The idea is through calculation. Sorta of like mathematics… with each thing He creates he keeps track of, and ultimately each new thing is a variable for another and tehy interact. Matter aside, even the mind and soul of a person is designed by God and are all made like equations, depending on the variables supplied to it from the external world people turn out one way or another, the same can be said to be true of angels as well. overtime as creation is complete, and God, being the amazing genius that He is, his supernatural intellect keeping track of all created things can predict both nature and man’s actions in advance, but only based on the starting point that God had to begin with first. So at first I’d say He didn’t know, but eventually as He began creating things worth knowing and set them about, He then did. This does not spoil any omnipotence of His to begin with, as before there was nothing to know about anyway… you follow?
Now onto the serpent and the whole situation. When God created man, He created Him with free will. And free will also applies that man can do something harmful or reject God if he chose to. Now God could have kept the situation from happening, but then this would be like cheating. God is not going to give man free will and then restrict him in some way, no He’s going to give him a world where he can freely exercise it, with that kind of negative situation set up, because God’s hardcore like that . Does everything perfectly!
Cuz what’s there to know unless what you’re trying to know exists in the first place?
Confused?
Well there is the idea of how God is able to be omniscient. The idea is through calculation. Sorta of like mathematics… with each thing He creates he keeps track of, and ultimately each new thing is a variable for another and tehy interact. Matter aside, even the mind and soul of a person is designed by God and are all made like equations, depending on the variables supplied to it from the external world people turn out one way or another, the same can be said to be true of angels as well. overtime as creation is complete, and God, being the amazing genius that He is, his supernatural intellect keeping track of all created things can predict both nature and man’s actions in advance, but only based on the starting point that God had to begin with first. So at first I’d say He didn’t know, but eventually as He began creating things worth knowing and set them about, He then did. This does not spoil any omnipotence of His to begin with, as before there was nothing to know about anyway… you follow?
Now onto the serpent and the whole situation. When God created man, He created Him with free will. And free will also applies that man can do something harmful or reject God if he chose to. Now God could have kept the situation from happening, but then this would be like cheating. God is not going to give man free will and then restrict him in some way, no He’s going to give him a world where he can freely exercise it, with that kind of negative situation set up, because God’s hardcore like that
. Does everything perfectly!
T
Todd_Easton
Guest
Because God is a master at jujitsu and knows how to use the strength and weight of his opponent (the devil) against him. Or, as St. Paul says, “We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him.” (Romans 8:28)
S
Steven_Merten
Guest
Hello abcdefg,
I think that if you read the book of Job in the bible, it will give you an understanding to the question you ask.
In the book of Job, Satan basically says, “Sure! your people ‘love’ and obey you when you protect them and give them things that are good, but take that all away and I tell you they will dispise you.” In other words Satan wants to put Job to the test to see if he really is as loving and obedient to God as is the claim.
Satan tests Jesus’ obedience to the Father. Satan also asks to sift through the hearts of the Apostles at Christ’s crucifixtion. Satan also asks to sift through our hearts to see if we are as loving, faithful and obedient to God as we may claim.
God tests the heart with free will in great hopes to find love. Satan on the other hand, tests the heart with free will in great hopes to find hatred.
In either event, those who are tested and prevail, offer up a precious, eternal gift of love and faithfulness to God.
NAB 1PE 1:6
There is cause for rejoicing here. You may for a time have to suffer the distress of many trials; but **this is so that your faith, which is more precious than the passing splendor of fire-tried gold, may by its genuineness lead to praise, glory, and honor when Jesus Christ appears.**NAB REV 7:14
“These are the ones who have survived the great period of trial; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”**NAB JAM 1:12 **
Happy the man who holds out to the end through trial! Once he has been proved, he will receive the crown of life the Lord has promised to those who love him.**NAB 1TH 2:3 **
The exhortation we deliver does not spring from deceit or impute motives or any sort of trickery; rather, having met the test imposed on us by God, as men entrusted with the good tidings, we speak like those who strive to please **God, **“the tester of our hearts,” rather than men.NAB JER 17:10
I, the LORD, alone probe the mind and test the heart, To reward everyone according to his ways, according to the merit of his deeds.
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
I think that if you read the book of Job in the bible, it will give you an understanding to the question you ask.
In the book of Job, Satan basically says, “Sure! your people ‘love’ and obey you when you protect them and give them things that are good, but take that all away and I tell you they will dispise you.” In other words Satan wants to put Job to the test to see if he really is as loving and obedient to God as is the claim.
Satan tests Jesus’ obedience to the Father. Satan also asks to sift through the hearts of the Apostles at Christ’s crucifixtion. Satan also asks to sift through our hearts to see if we are as loving, faithful and obedient to God as we may claim.
God tests the heart with free will in great hopes to find love. Satan on the other hand, tests the heart with free will in great hopes to find hatred.
In either event, those who are tested and prevail, offer up a precious, eternal gift of love and faithfulness to God.
NAB 1PE 1:6
There is cause for rejoicing here. You may for a time have to suffer the distress of many trials; but **this is so that your faith, which is more precious than the passing splendor of fire-tried gold, may by its genuineness lead to praise, glory, and honor when Jesus Christ appears.**NAB REV 7:14
“These are the ones who have survived the great period of trial; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”**NAB JAM 1:12 **
Happy the man who holds out to the end through trial! Once he has been proved, he will receive the crown of life the Lord has promised to those who love him.**NAB 1TH 2:3 **
The exhortation we deliver does not spring from deceit or impute motives or any sort of trickery; rather, having met the test imposed on us by God, as men entrusted with the good tidings, we speak like those who strive to please **God, **“the tester of our hearts,” rather than men.NAB JER 17:10
I, the LORD, alone probe the mind and test the heart, To reward everyone according to his ways, according to the merit of his deeds.
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
S
SPOKENWORD
Guest
Hi A, Satan came into the garden as an illegal alien.God gave Adam and Eve dominion over all in this earth. Satan became jealous because of that power and thus wanted to take down thier power and authority.Thats why Jesus came to us in the flesh[born] so that He could have authority over all the earth legally. It was not till Jesus baptism that He recieved the power[annoiting] so that He could do the work His Father called Him to do. Jesus came that Satan would be defeated
God Bless
X
Xenos
Guest
JD,
Respectfully, your arguement does limit God’s omniciance (Now there is an oxymoron for you).
Re 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
God knew about the whole thing, and planned the cross before the world existed.
God’s forknowledge about wwhat I am going to do does not negate my free choice to make the decisions that He already knows I will.
This isn’t worth going to the wall over, but it might be worth going to the fence.
Respectfully, your arguement does limit God’s omniciance (Now there is an oxymoron for you).
Re 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
God knew about the whole thing, and planned the cross before the world existed.
God’s forknowledge about wwhat I am going to do does not negate my free choice to make the decisions that He already knows I will.
This isn’t worth going to the wall over, but it might be worth going to the fence.
R
RobedWithLight
Guest
God knew the whole thing, because He is omniscient.
However, I’m not sure if He “planned” it. The term “planned” suggests a deliberate, arbitrary act on the part of God to “ensure” that the Fall of Adam and Eve would indeed take place, then send His Son to earth to repair the damage. Knowing is not necessarily the same as planning.
Gerry
A
AlanFromWichita
Guest
Dear jdnation,
It sounds to me like you’re talking about the difference between knowing something would happen and causing it to happen, or in the case of God they are the same thing because He caused it all, if nothing else by leaving a setup that could go either way.
jdnation:
Alan
It sounds to me like you’re talking about the difference between knowing something would happen and causing it to happen, or in the case of God they are the same thing because He caused it all, if nothing else by leaving a setup that could go either way.
It interesting. I’m not sure I exactly follow, but I certainly don’t detect that anything you have written is, intentionally or otherwise, insulting to God or limiting His omnipotence or omniscience or any other om-thing.
I completely agree. Free will would be meaningless if the person isn’t given the authority to actually make a choice, and that includes knowing that there is a choice. Yeah, big whoop if I (role-playing as God now) create a man with no distractions in his world at all and then go around claiming how much he loves me. Satan could rightly tell me, big deal – wait until he is tested. I might as well have just created a dog if all I wanted was unquestioning loyalty.God is not going to give man free will and then restrict him in some way, no He’s going to give him a world where he can freely exercise it, with that kind of negative situation set up, because God’s hardcore like that
Alan
K
Kaily
Guest
In response to the person who said God couldn’t know, God did know, because He is ALL KNOWING. Why did He leave the serpent there, that is a good question. Out of HIs infinite Wisdom, because evil always draws good, even the fall, remember what some of the saints said, Oh Happy Fault, the fall brought us our Redeemer. And if we never fell from being tempted by Satan, who knows, we could of become just like Satan on our own and gotton proud without being tempted and therefore we would have been just like him. Who knows. We must just be satisified with what God has allowed us to understand now, we will understand all of His mysteries when we are with Him in heaven, but now we must just work for souls and our own salvation. There are some things we won’t ever understand until we are with Him and see everything in His light. Also, God wants to know we Love Him and so He tested us; because we have free will and Adam and Eve chose evil by their own free will, so we have to understand free will in order to understand this I think. Hope some of this helps, but again, we won’t really understand until we see things in God’s light.
Blessings,
Kaily
Blessings,
Kaily
X
Xenos
Guest
Gerry, we ae getting pretty deep here. As we agree, God knew man woudl fall. There was no need to insure the event. God knew the fall would happen before he created man, and knew that Jesus would come to pay the penalty for sin to restore the relatonship with mankind, because He Himself designed this method of atonement. He’s God; He could have set any penalty or no penalty. If “planning” the cross seems a little too strong a term for this, that’s OK, I’l accept another term. It isn’t worth going to the fence over.God knew the whole thing, because He is omniscient.
However, I’m not sure if He “planned” it. The term “planned” suggests a deliberate, arbitrary act on the part of God to “ensure” that the Fall of Adam and Eve would indeed take place, then send His Son to earth to repair the damage. Knowing is not necessarily the same as planning.
Gerry
Again, these are deep thoughts; it is good to think about them.
Hope you are having a great day.
R
RobedWithLight
Guest
I hope you are too. “Planning” indeed is too strong a term and suggests an arbitrariness that can be misunderstood by some.
Gerry
P
patg
Guest
A better understanding of the story might be gained by asking the question differently - why did the author of this story include the snake as a character?
The story of the man and the woman in the garden is a myth. It is an imaginative story that uses symbols to explore a realty beyond our comprehension. The reality being explored is: Why do human beings suffer?" The author who chose to explore this question does not have the option of giving an historical explanation. He doesn’t know a historical explanation. The author makes it very evident that his genre is not historical by his obvious use of symbols.
What in the story is an obvious symbol? The tree of a knowledge of good and evil as a symbol. Such a tree does not in fact exist in the order of reality. Notice there is no apple tree in this story. There is a tree of a knowledge of good and evil and a tree of life - another obvious symbol. If one can eat every day from the tree of life, one will not die. A third obvious symbol is the talking snake. Notice too that the snake is not referred to as the devil. The snake is a character in the plot, just as God, the man, and the woman are characters in the plot.
In the beginning of this story, God creates “the man”. Notice in this translation, the man is not called Adam. This is good because Adam has come to be a proper noun, a masculine singular noun, to English speaking readers. The Hebrew word that is translated “the man” is not a masculine singular noun but a collective noun. “The man” is each of us - all of us.
Enter the villain, the serpent, one of the most subtle of all the wild beasts that God created.
The word *sin *is not used in this story but the author has done a magnificent job of representing sin. Sin is committed when a person knows the spiritual order and chooses to act contrary to it. The author dramatizes sin perfectly. Through the dialogue between the serpent and the woman we are able to see that the woman does know the spiritual order. She tells the snake that God told them not to eat of this one tree. It is interesting that she doesn’t quote God’s order exactly, but makes it stricter than God did - we may not eat it “nor touch it.” This “stricter than God” attitude is one that reappears in Jesus’ adversaries in the Gospels.
The author believes that spiritual realty is ordered by God. People may act in accordance with God’s order and prosper, or they may act contrary to God’s order, suffer, and eventually die. So the order not to eat of the tree of a knowledge of good and evil is the author’s symbolic way of representing the possibility of our choosing to act contrary to the spiritual order that God has established.
There is a lot more that can be discussed about this, but that is enough typing for now.
Pat
A
awalt
Guest
God knows everything, so He knew exactly what would happen. Man’s free will does not contradict this, otherwise how could God know about each and every one of us “…since before mankind existed”? That’s a lot of choices to get to you and me
God knew that Adam and Eve would fall into sin, and that he would have a plan for salvation based around the death of Jesus Christ - the Bible says that plan existed before man was created.
Given that, God wanted man to have the opportunity to triumph over evil.
God knew that man would be stronger through his triumph and better serve the plan for God if mankind triumphed over evil. I remind myself that being saved in Jesus Christ by grace, through faith, is just the first step, the second is “…to do the good works of the Lord”. The Bible also says we are prepared for that work through the Word, prayer, and the growth of the Holy Spirit inside us through our suffering. That suffering is all caused by the evil of Satan.
So in conclusion - serpent starts man down a slippery slope that culminates in us being well prepared to do the good works of the Lord for eternity.
God knew that Adam and Eve would fall into sin, and that he would have a plan for salvation based around the death of Jesus Christ - the Bible says that plan existed before man was created.
Given that, God wanted man to have the opportunity to triumph over evil.
God knew that man would be stronger through his triumph and better serve the plan for God if mankind triumphed over evil. I remind myself that being saved in Jesus Christ by grace, through faith, is just the first step, the second is “…to do the good works of the Lord”. The Bible also says we are prepared for that work through the Word, prayer, and the growth of the Holy Spirit inside us through our suffering. That suffering is all caused by the evil of Satan.
So in conclusion - serpent starts man down a slippery slope that culminates in us being well prepared to do the good works of the Lord for eternity.
A
awalt
Guest
God knows everything, so He knew exactly what would happen. Man’s free will does not contradict this, otherwise how could God know about each and every one of us “…since before mankind existed”? That’s a lot of choices to get to you and me
God knew that Adam and Eve would fall into sin, and that he would have a plan for salvation based around the death of Jesus Christ - the Bible says that plan existed before man was created.
Given that, God wanted man to have the opportunity to triumph over evil.
God knew that man would be stronger through his triumph and better serve the plan for God if mankind triumphed over evil. I remind myself that being saved in Jesus Christ by grace, through faith, is just the first step, the second is “…to do the good works of the Lord”. The Bible also says we are prepared for that work through the Word, prayer, and the growth of the Holy Spirit inside us through our suffering. That suffering is all caused by the evil of Satan.
So in conclusion - serpent starts man down a slippery slope that culminates in us being well prepared to do the good works of the Lord for eternity.
God knew that Adam and Eve would fall into sin, and that he would have a plan for salvation based around the death of Jesus Christ - the Bible says that plan existed before man was created.
Given that, God wanted man to have the opportunity to triumph over evil.
God knew that man would be stronger through his triumph and better serve the plan for God if mankind triumphed over evil. I remind myself that being saved in Jesus Christ by grace, through faith, is just the first step, the second is “…to do the good works of the Lord”. The Bible also says we are prepared for that work through the Word, prayer, and the growth of the Holy Spirit inside us through our suffering. That suffering is all caused by the evil of Satan.
So in conclusion - serpent starts man down a slippery slope that culminates in us being well prepared to do the good works of the Lord for eternity.
- Status