Why good people suffer?

[Gaber]

… “fill up what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ,” as Paul wrote…

Wow. Ya gotta wonder what Paul said in the original. As the Romans said, “Idem non idem.” The same (in one language) is not the same (in another.) And I believe that it is the Italians who say “Translators are liars.” I’d look a bit deeper in this one, and not to someone who has only some pious result as a motive. For instance, if you read the George Lamsa translation of the Bible, he being a native speaker of Aramaic, you can discover that many words in the Bible are mistranslated outright in many versions, or at least are dubiious. Then if you look into the nature of translation and of meaning itself, an cultural contexts, etc, etc, the picture becomes a little less simple thatn “…Paul wrote…” And which epistle did that come from? One we are sure he wrote himself, or from one in the about half of ones attributed to him that are from another source?

 

[BobCatholic]

So we can “fill up what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ,” as Paul wrote. This is not because there was anything lacking in the redemptive power of his sufferings,

There is lacking.

We are not back in the Garden of Eden. We are still held temporally responsible for Adam and Eve’s sin.

 

[Gaber]

There is lacking.

We are not back in the Garden of Eden. We are still held temporally responsible for Adam and Eve’s sin.

What is lacking is a competent examinaton beyond the superficial meaning of the Garden story. If you were “back in the Garden” you wouldn’t know the difference between yourself and a tree.

 

[davidv]

What is lacking is a competent examinaton beyond the superficial meaning of the Garden story. If you were “back in the Garden” you wouldn’t know the difference between yourself and a tree.

Adam recognized he was different from all other living beings.

Then the man said, "This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh;… Gen 2:23

Why would it different for us if we were placed there instead of Adam?

 

[BobCatholic]

What is lacking is a competent examinaton beyond the superficial meaning of the Garden story. If you were “back in the Garden” you wouldn’t know the difference between yourself and a tree.

Incorrect.

I’d know God in a more personal way, being able to talk to him face to face. Something I don’t know now.

 

[Gaber]

Incorrect.

I’d know God in a more personal way, being able to talk to him face to face. Something I don’t know now.

Incorrect by reasoning from the premise you accept at the moment. There are many, me included, who would say that while up to a point one necessarily feels as if there is a presonal relationship with a personal God, ultimately that changes into something far more ineffable, and while not understood as personal, is fra far more satisfying and actual. It depends on how you see yourself as being, at the moment. When yocan get past your subject/object mind, even for a moment, things change radically.

 

[BobCatholic]

Incorrect by reasoning from the premise you accept at the moment.

So you are saying that Adam and Eve did not see God face to face in the Garden of Eden? Verse and chapter please.

 

[Gaber]

So you are saying that Adam and Eve did not see God face to face in the Garden of Eden? Verse and chapter please.

I’m quite sure that no matter what I quoted to you you would maintain your stance, and that is fine. It would appear that you ahve a very litteral take on that story. So let me just ask you, what is your understanding of that story, why do you have it, and most importantly, how did you come to have it that way?

 

[BobCatholic]

I’m quite sure that no matter what I quoted to you you would maintain your stance, and that is fine. It would appear that you ahve a very litteral take on that story. So let me just ask you, what is your understanding of that story, why do you have it, and most importantly, how did you come to have it that way?

They were real people. The first two humans. They lived in paradise. But God made them imperfect and thus destined to fail. Either Adam was a wimp and didn’t stand up for his wife, or both were naive, or both were filled with fear. Regardless which imperfection, they were destined to fail. It was just a bug in the software. The software crashed and they failed. Then they got kicked out of paradise, and trapping themselves and us out here in this horrible reality.

 

[Gaber]

They were real people. The first two humans. They lived in paradise. But God made them imperfect and thus destined to fail. Either Adam was a wimp and didn’t stand up for his wife, or both were naive, or both were filled with fear. Regardless which imperfection, they were destined to fail. It was just a bug in the software. The software crashed and they failed. Then they got kicked out of paradise, and trapping themselves and us out here in this horrible reality.

S as I guessed, you have a litreral understanding of that story, and see no possibility, like the parables of Jesus and other teaching devices, that there may be the oportunity in these tales to penetrate them to deeper meaning. If that is the case, we don’t have a conversation, and having no need to prove anything, we’re done.