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inJESUS
Guest
show me.
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Shadowcry
Guest
Where he tells us that all that do not follow him will go to hell. Check the book. 
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inJESUS
Guest
Lord have mercy on us!Where he tells us that all that do not follow him will go to hell. Check the book.
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mschoir01
Guest
Has anyone read The Trouble With Islam? It is very interesting reading. The author, Irshad Manji makes some salient points for an Islamic “reformation”. The trouble with it is that the author is a woman and a lesbian. On the other hand, her knowledge of her religion and her desire to make Islam over into what her Prophet had in mind make for a good argument for an Islamic reformation in order to legitimize it in modern days.
One of my friends (a Persian) who converted from Islam to Christianity said that the God the Muslim’s worship is an angry, unforgiving God who requires the cutting off of hands and the death penalty. I cannot reconcile this type of wrath with an all-loving Creator. Nor can I understand how life can be regarded as sacred on the one hand and yet so cheap as to be used to cause the deaths of others in suicide attacks. I have a lot of trouble with Islam, too. Another (a Maylaysian) said that it is no sin for a poor person to steal from a rich person. Where is that at?
It puzzles me that Christians, Jews and Muslims all purport to worship the God of Abraham and yet have taken such different routes to salvation. I want to tell them all to come to Jesus, but how to get them to listen?
One of my friends (a Persian) who converted from Islam to Christianity said that the God the Muslim’s worship is an angry, unforgiving God who requires the cutting off of hands and the death penalty. I cannot reconcile this type of wrath with an all-loving Creator. Nor can I understand how life can be regarded as sacred on the one hand and yet so cheap as to be used to cause the deaths of others in suicide attacks. I have a lot of trouble with Islam, too. Another (a Maylaysian) said that it is no sin for a poor person to steal from a rich person. Where is that at?
It puzzles me that Christians, Jews and Muslims all purport to worship the God of Abraham and yet have taken such different routes to salvation. I want to tell them all to come to Jesus, but how to get them to listen?
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Shadowcry
Guest
Lord have mercy on you.
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Justice2006
Guest
Hi mschoir01,
Your “persian friend” was probably not a Muslim at all who converted to Christianity. So, for him converting to Christianity was probably converting from one chaos to an another chaos…nothing surprizing here. Come to think of a Mormon Christian converting to the cult of David Koresh or Jehovas Witnessess Christianity.
BTW, you did not mention to which brand, sect, cult or denomination of Christinity your “Muslim” friend got converted. If he was converted to Catholic Christianity then bear in mind that Catholicism was not the religion of Jesus. Jesus did not preach Catholic dogmas. Christ himself was not a Christian.
As to “angry, unforgiving God” issue, consider this:
Old Testament
Exodus 20:1-6
1 **Then God delivered all these commandments: **
2 "I, the LORD, am your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.
3 **You shall not have other gods besides me. **
4 You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth;
5 2 you shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishment for their fathers’ wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation;
6 but bestowing mercy down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Footnote#2: 2 [5] Jealous: demanding exclusive allegiance, such as a wife must have for her husband.
[The Catholic Bible-NAB- http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/exodus/exodus20.htm#foot2]
So here the God is a Jealous God. But what exactly the Jealousy is?
You need to ask, St. Paul (real name: Saul, (a Pharisee and son of Pharisees), who is actual founder of Christianity, so in Galatians 5:18-23 he tells you:
18 **But if you are guided by the Spirit, you are not under the law. **
19 14 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions,
21 **occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. **
22 **In contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, **
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
Footnote # 14 [19-23] Such lists of vices and virtues i.e immorality, impurity, licentiousness,idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions, occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like] (cf Romans 1:29-31; 1 Cor 6:9-10) were common in the ancient world. Paul contrasts works of the flesh (Gal 5:19) with fruit (not “works”) of the Spirit (Gal 5:22). Not law, but the Spirit, leads to such traits.
The Catholic Bible-NAB- [usccb.org/nab/bible/galatians/galatians5.htm]](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/galatians/galatians5.htm])
And I would like you to ponder/reflect what Paul is in fact telling you.
See my next post, about FORGIVENESS in Islam.
.
2 "I, the LORD, am your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.
3 **You shall not have other gods besides me. **
4 You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth;
5 2 you shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishment for their fathers’ wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation;
6 but bestowing mercy down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Footnote#2: 2 [5] Jealous: demanding exclusive allegiance, such as a wife must have for her husband.
[The Catholic Bible-NAB- http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/exodus/exodus20.htm#foot2]
So here the God is a Jealous God. But what exactly the Jealousy is?
You need to ask, St. Paul (real name: Saul, (a Pharisee and son of Pharisees), who is actual founder of Christianity, so in Galatians 5:18-23 he tells you:
18 **But if you are guided by the Spirit, you are not under the law. **
19 14 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions,
21 **occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. **
22 **In contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, **
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
Footnote # 14 [19-23] Such lists of vices and virtues i.e immorality, impurity, licentiousness,idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions, occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like] (cf Romans 1:29-31; 1 Cor 6:9-10) were common in the ancient world. Paul contrasts works of the flesh (Gal 5:19) with fruit (not “works”) of the Spirit (Gal 5:22). Not law, but the Spirit, leads to such traits.
The Catholic Bible-NAB- [usccb.org/nab/bible/galatians/galatians5.htm]](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/galatians/galatians5.htm])
And I would like you to ponder/reflect what Paul is in fact telling you.
See my next post, about FORGIVENESS in Islam.
.
R
redmars3000
Guest
I read this debate a year after it was over, a spectator. Shadow: you use reason when it suits you and when reason shows you to be false you quickly play a self-righteous victim(child), throwing out all rationality. inJesus won the debate, hands down.
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hosemonkey
Guest
False God (allah) False prophet(Mohammed) False book (Koran) deluded and fear-filled people.What more could Satan ask for. Look to the founder if you want to know the truth of a religion. Mohammed, child-molester, caravan robber, murderer, liar. Jesus Christ, healer, teacher, True God and True Man. One is Life, the other, Death and oppression. Sorry.
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BelFarfalla
Guest
To me one of the biggests things that shows the Qur’an to be wrong is that 600 years after Jesus, supposedly Allah told Muhammad that the punishment for sexual sins is death. Yes Jesus stopped people from stoning for that reason. The NT ends the harsher punishments for these crimes. Instead it allows people the chance to repent and lead a better life.
Now why would God come along 600 years later and change this? The rest of the Qur’an basically throws out everything that Jesus taught. Why would God change his mind and then tell the Arabs to subjigate or klll and Christian or Jew who did not convert to Islam?
Makes no sense to me. This is why I find it hard to believe that the God in the Koran is the same God of the OT/NT.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
In my opinion, since the Christians don’t know for sure the attributes of Christian God and GodAllahYHWH; they are all confused, so that is their hinderance.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
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redmars3000
Guest
Well I think your opinion is misguided. What attributes about God exactly do Christians not understand? Please don’t turn this into a debate about the Trinity. The only people who are thoroughly confused enough about this to doubt the Christian God are only non Christians.
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daniel_edge
Guest
I would love to read the article, but Im living in Saudi Arabia at the moment and the site is blocked. Pity, Im a convert to Islam wishing to know more about Christianity.
Regards Daniel
Regards Daniel
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BelFarfalla
Guest
You probably will not get the chance to find out more about Christianity as long as you are in Saudi as it is not allowed. You know this.
Where you religious before you converted to Isalm? If so what religion were you with?
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BelFarfalla
Guest
About 75% of Christians are Catholic or Othodox, who know exactly who God is. Most of the prodestant sects do to. I will agree with you that there are some small minority of Christians who are confused… they fall into some real fringe groups.
Now you are not really a Muslim are you? You’re from an apostate group who believes that there was at least one more prophet after Muhammad right? Can you explain to us why your gourp has left mainstream Islam and apostated?
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
That would be a more valid reason for your converting to Islam. You believe in Second Coming of Messiah. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has claimed to be a MessiahImamMahdi so you should hasten to accept him, however, no compulsion. Please don’t mind to make a research in this connection. May GodAllahYHWH bless you! Don’t you believe in Second Coming of Messiah?
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
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dolphinlove
Guest
You know what, I REALLY suggest you go and READ the bible properly.
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LilyM
Guest
We believe in a second coming of Jesus Christ his own self, not any other person claiming to be a messiah or imam or reincarnation of him nor anyone else.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
The world does not run for what one believes in. The realities take their own shape. JesusYeshuaIssa himself solved this question by saying that the belief in Second Coming of Elijah took shape in the form of John the Baptist. Please believe in the witnessing of the JesusYeshuaIssa, if you are his true follower.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
R
redmars3000
Guest
Isn’t trying to convert catholics to something else a big no no on these forums?
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