Why I'm considering Eastern Orthodoxy

[Mickey]

In the first place, try and refrain from the “oh please” nonsense. I’m sure you can communicate your points without that.

In the second place, my point was much more general than you seem to think.

Then please make your points without your condescension. This is turning into an Orthodox bashing session.

 

[VociMike]

Then please make your points without your condescension. This is turning into an Orthodox bashing session.

Not by me. I have great respect for Orthodoxy, and I don’t want to argue with any of her members. In fact, I want to learn from her and from them. I even wish there was still an area on this forum where they could hang oug. And as I wrote (and you noted), I was making a general point far beyond just Christian groups.

So let’s call a truce and fight the militant atheists together, OK?

 

[Mickey]

Not by me. I have great respect for Orthodoxy, and I don’t want to argue with any of her members. In fact, I want to learn from her and from them. I even wish there was still an area on this forum where they could hang oug. And as I wrote (and you noted), I was making a general point far beyond just Christian groups.

So let’s call a truce and fight the militant atheists together, OK?

Okay. God bless you! May you have a joyous-mournful remainder of Lent, a prayerful Holy Week and a blessed Pascha!

 

[rpp]

And Orthodoxy prevailed!

Because of Rome.

 

[Mickey]

Because of Rome.

Rome was still in union with the other four Patriarchates at that time.

Have a blessed Pascha!

 

[David_Zampino]

instead of Catholicism…

The EO church does not seem to have parishioners pushing for:
changes in the liturgy
inclusive language
women priests
gay priests
women at the altar
abortion rights
and many other things such as that…

there isn’t the constant talk of clown masses, Obama speaking at Orthodox colleges, prominent Orthodox taking communion and then backing gay rights or abortion, inclusive “God is a women” language that some in the RC want, and constant complaints even on this forum about priests and bishops who not only allow these things with no consequence, but are sometimes the ones pushing it! :nope:

How is it that overall (no church is perfect), but overall, the EO have maintained the faith for all these years without these issues constantly coming up? Especially since they don’t have a pope, or head other than Christ and the Patriachs to pass on the faith and keep the faithful in line?

oneseeker2

I think that you may be drawing conclusions without all the necessary information.

Just a couple of points to consider:

Sadly, Orthodox politicians in the United States have at least as bad a track record on the moral issues as do many Catholic politicians. Sen. Snowe of Maine and former Sen. Sarbanes of Maryland are classic examples. The latter, one of the most anti-life senators to ever serve, was even honored as Archon of the Ecumenical Patriarchate. See the link directing to an article on the subject authored by an Orthodox Christian:

touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=12-02-014-v

Sadly, in many instances, the voice of Holy Orthodoxy has been muted on the life issues.

Now, does this mean that all Catholic politicians have upheld the position of the Church on moral issues? Sadly, many have not. The difference? The Vatican and many American bishops have been quite vocal about life and have been quite vocal about criticizing “Catholic” politicians whose lives (and votes) do not live up to the Church teachings. In other words, you don’t see Papal decorations for Nancy Pelosi!

And with regard to our current President?

Archbishop Demetrios notwithstanding, Pres. Obama is not the next Alexander the Great!

politico.com/news/stories/0309/20494.html

The issues aren’t quite as clear-cut as you appear to think.

Blessings,

 

[promethius]

I never see or hear of such things in the Orthodox Church. Where are your stats?

As stated, I don’t have stats other than a few orthodox friends and an orthodox professor I took several theology classes from. But the bottom line is you can’t say NO orthodox person supporst those things. I have personally met orthodox types who do. It’s not a slight on the orthodox church, their teachings are sound, but there will always be dissenters in any large group.

You are joking, right?

A search of yahoo!news revealed more than 37,000 news stories on catholicism. Searching for orthodox yielded me 3,433 stories. There is no joke, american news media doesn’t tend to focus on cultural aspects that have central locus outside of western society. Islam only gets attention because of Osama and buddies being a bit uppity at the moment.

Numbers is meaningless. The path is narrow.

This is not a discussion on salvation potential, nor should you try to victimize orthodoxy from your post. I generally regard all the truly catholic bodies as equal but seperated brethren. The point I was making is that when 100,000 orthodox people believe something, that’s a number. When 25,000,000 catholics vote for something, even though that’s not that big of a percentage of the church, that’s noteworthy news in the USofA. Bottom line: having a bigger base population means we’re naturally going to have more public figures and more dissenters to make headlines in the news. Don’t turn the secular argument into one about salvation, it’s not the point I was making and you should know that.

 

[VociMike]

Okay. God bless you! May you have a joyous-mournful remainder of Lent, a prayerful Holy Week and a blessed Pascha!

And I wish all the same for you, my brother in Christ.

 

[Mickey]

The difference? The Vatican and many American bishops have been quite vocal about life and have been quite vocal about criticizing “Catholic” politicians whose lives (and votes) do not live up to the Church teachings. In other words, you don’t see Papal decorations for Nancy Pelosi!

Please attempt to restrain your bias. I can list multiple declarations by Orthodox hierarchy against abortion. Just because you are not aware of it, does not mean it is muted.

 

[Mickey]

there will always be dissenters in any large group.

There will always be dissenters. Period.

A search of yahoo!news revealed more than 37,000 news stories on catholicism. Searching for orthodox yielded me 3,433 stories.

This is a meaningless stat.

There is no joke, american news media doesn’t tend to focus on cultural aspects that have central locus outside of western society.

Don’t get me started on American news media.

This is not a discussion on salvation potential, nor should you try to victimize orthodoxy from your post.

If you stop your subjective dissertation—I will also stop.

Bottom line: having a bigger base population means we’re naturally going to have more public figures and more dissenters to make headlines in the news.

It has nothing to do with numbers. It has more to do with the media personalities who have some type of axe to grind with the Roman Catholic Church.

Don’t turn the secular argument into one about salvation, it’s not the point I was making and you should know that.

I have done no such thing. I am merely trying to get you to back off your subjective bias.

Have a blessed Pascha!

 

[David_Zampino]

Please attempt to restrain your bias. I can list multiple declarations by Orthodox hierarchy against abortion. Just because you are not aware of it, does not mean it is muted.

I was equally critical about hypocritical Catholic politicians – of which there are many. The “Touchstone” article to which I linked was written by an Orthodox Christian who expressed grave concerns on this matter. I would be interested in hearing your response to the article. No slight against Holy Orthodoxy was intended or implied.

Blessings,

 

[Mickey]

I was equally critical about hypocritical Catholic politicians – of which there are many. The “Touchstone” article to which I linked was written by an Orthodox Christian who expressed grave concerns on this matter. I would be interested in hearing your response to the article. No slight against Holy Orthodoxy was intended or implied.

Please forgive my misunderstanding.
Here is my take on the matter:

Any politician or clergy or laity or anyone–Orthodox, Catholic, protestant, etc-----who supports the cold blooded murder of the child in the womb, needs to be confronted and educated with cold hard facts and compassion. There is no such thing as pro-choice. The baby who is murdered does not have a choice. The blood of the holy innocent martyrs, who were killed in the womb, cries out for justice. Let us pray for the metanoia of those who support this genocide. Lord have mercy!

 

[David_Zampino]

Please forgive my misunderstanding.
Here is my take on the matter:

Any politician or clergy or laity or anyone–Orthodox, Catholic, protestant, etc-----who supports the cold blooded murder of the child in the womb, needs to be confronted and educated with cold hard facts and compassion. There is no such thing as pro-choice. The baby who is murdered does not have a choice. The blood of the holy innocent martyrs, who were killed in the womb, cries out for justice. Let us pray for the metanoia of those who support this genocide. Lord have mercy!

Amen and amen!!!

 

[jimmy]

Just consider, in your investigations, which Church is it that Satan is most likely to attack, and with the most vigor? The Church with the fullness of truth, or a Church which, though it contains much truth, does not contain the fullness of truth? Much can be known of a person (or organization) by looking at his/its enemies.

This is a lame arguement considering the fact that Catholics also use the arguement that by leaving the Church churches are bound to disintigrate. The fact is that the EO have done a very good job of handling the problems they have had. The arguement that a church disintigrates as it moves away from the Church makes more sense anyway due to the fact that the devil is the prince of this world and it is the Church that is the source of salvation in the world.

Mickey has a very good point. If you want to consider the attacks of Satan consider the Russian revolution in which tens of millions of Orthodox Christians were killed. Consider that the Orthodox lived under Muslim rule for centuries. When it comes to martyrs, you couldn’t compare the west to the east.

Excellent points, Mike. And the Arian heresy was only one of many to arise within the Eastern Church: the vast majority of the ancient and medieval heresies sprang from the East:

They were also solved in the east by eastern bishops at councils like Nicea, Constantinople, Ephesus, Chalcedon, II Constantinople, III Constantinople, and II Nicea.

The only ancient heresy that arose in the West was Pelagianism, and the West immediately condemned it, whereas the East entertained it as orthodox for a good long time.

Consider Novatianism which was a western heresy. Manichaeanism was mainly a western heresy. And take for example that supposedly the filioque was added to the creed in the west to combat Arianism so apparently the west had its own problems with Arianism. Heresy isn’t exclusively an eastern thing.

 

[Gofer]

“He who is not with me is against me.”

Define “he”, and you’ll have all the answers you need.

“Against me!”

Nothing worse than almost making it to the finish line.

Why go for lite when you can have premium?