Why in some dioceses Ascension Thursday still considered a holy day and others don't?

[EcceAgnusDei]

There seems to be a trend over the past decades of making things “easier.” As Catholics in America, we are only required to fast 2 days in the year. 2! Abstinence only in Lent. Transferring Holy Days of Obligation to the nearest Sunday seems to fit into this paradigm, since Catholics would be going to Mass on Sundays anyways.

Why is there this trend?

Look at the disciplines of the Eastern Rite Catholics (and the Orthodox). That it some hard-core penance, especially during Lent.

If we change the rules to make it easier, it certainly means more people will be following the rules, but it doesn’t mean more people will be holier. As a teacher, I can certainly lower my grading standards, which means that more students will pass the class, but it doesn’t mean that those students are any smarter or more dedicated.

• PAX

 

[MissRose73]

Extraordinary Form on Thursday evening as well. Even though the day has been transferred in my diocese, I still take the day off from work and treat it as a Sunday feast day. Several of my Catholic co-workers (we are public school teachers) do likewise which serves as a silent testament to our faith.

I have Thursday off work myself, so I must likely will go to an Extraordinary Form Mass as those diocesan parishes consider it still a holy day to celebrated regardless of the day it falls on.

 

[wasserfall]

Ya’ll come down south to ‘Lanta some time, and we’ll be more n’ happy to show ya’ll some packed parking lots on the Feast of St. Joseph, All Saints Day, the Feast of the Immaculate Conception, Feast of St. Jude, and all the other major feasts.

We’d love to have ya. Holy days of obligation don’t mean much to us down here. Were too busy fighting over seats in the adoration chapel.

As nice as that all is, it isn’t a result of special devotion in Atlanta. It is a result of having 800,000 Catholics (or more) in a diocese with with a parish structure built for 80,000.

I remember going to mass in the Atlanta cathedral on Sunday some 10 or so years ago, and you had to fight your way into the church against the people coming out from the previous mass. Then you sat packed like sardines in pews so close to each other that it was impossible to kneel without kicking the guy behind you, and then 45 minutes later you had to fight your way back out against the crowd coming in for the next mass.

In one way, it sounds like a Catholic dreamworld, but it was really just a major city with a cathedral the size of medium parish.

 

[TrueLight]

Why not have 3 Masses on holy days of obligation? One in the morning, afternoon and one around 7 pm?

 

[Joe_5859]

If you’re interested, the USCCB website has all the documentation corresponding to canon 1246 (the canon that addresses Holy Days of Obligation).

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/canon-law/complementary-norms/canon-1246.cfm

The addendum at the very bottom from 1999 shows where the decision on whether or not to transfer the feast is left up to the Ecclesiastical Provinces here in the U.S.

Of course, we can have our own opinions about what the “best” way of doing this is, but the bishops are our shepherds and they went through all the proper protocol to make this change.

 

[Joe_5859]

Why not have 3 Masses on holy days of obligation? One in the morning, afternoon and one around 7 pm?

I imagine the priests I know who are pastors of 4 parishes probably don’t want to celebrate 12 Masses that day.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

If you’re interested, the USCCB website has all the documentation corresponding to canon 1246 (the canon that addresses Holy Days of Obligation).

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/canon-law/complementary-norms/canon-1246.cfm

The addendum at the very bottom from 1999 shows where the decision on whether or not to transfer the feast is left up to the Ecclesiastical Provinces here in the U.S.

Of course, we can have our own opinions about what the “best” way of doing this is, but the bishops are our shepherds and they went through all the proper protocol to make this change.

I don’t think anyone is denying that, Joe. The concern is that this practice, over time, enforces the idea that attendance at Mass on Sundays alone is the norm. The idea of a holy day of obligation other than an ordinary Sunday ceases to exist in the minds and hearts of the faithful. The emphasis on the great feasts of the Church becomes diluted. The notion of attending Mass on any day other than Sunday becomes gradually more foreign.

I do agree that practical considerations of modern society were taken into account in allowing this option. Others have also mentioned that feast days of this kind are often legal holidays in some countries, those in Europe in particular. The stats would also show that attendance at Mass on these days is abismally low (to which I can attest, being a frequent business traveler to the Old World).

So what’s the answer? It is not for us to say or judge necessarily, and we do need to rely on our bishops to guide us. But this certainly seems a valid and healthy topic for thoughtful exchange among the laity and faithful who do care about their Church and the welfare of the faithful.

 

[hilde_the_dog]

Isn’t it odd - the HDO get transferred and yet Ash Wednesday remains a major day with multiple masses and yet is not a HDO. Terrible catechisis. My sixth grade CCD boys all begin the year thinking Ash Wednesday is a HDO - but could not tell you what or when Ascension thursday is?

 

[mellowcalico]

In many nations- most of Europe, Ascension Thursday is a civil holiday- banks and government offices are closed and most people have the day off from work.

Ideally, the holy days of obligation are supposed to be days where the people are not supposed to be working either- just like Sunday.

But of course that is pretty impossible for most people with jobs in America- very few places close their doors for the Ascension.

In light of the realities of life here in the United States and the number of people who really can’t attend or rest during the day, some bishops have understandably laid the obligation aside and moved it to the weekend.

They also get more time off work it seems. I only have 10 days a year. I use some for HDO, but I miss some HDO too to be honest–I just don’t have the time off.

The problem I find is that the Masses start after I have to leave for work, in the middle of the day when I am at work (and are longer than my lunch break), or are so late in the evening (if they even have them in the evening) that they go past my daughter’s bedtime. So in order to go, I need to take the day off.

So I am glad when they are on Sunday, but I understand the argument that blending them with Sunday obligation makes HDO “invisible.”

 

[Cristiano]

Translation: there is a long history of eliminating and transferring holy days of obligation. For instance, in 1884 the collected bishops of the United States (with Vatican approval) transferred the obligated days of Corpus Christi and Ss. Peter and Paul to the nearest respective Sundays (thus essentially eliminating them as separate days of obligation, in just the same way as the more recent change concerning the Ascension does). Indeed, if you were to trace through the developments of what has been done concerning holy days of obligation, you would find a rather steep, and centuries-long, trajectory toward laxity and the elimination of feasts and obligations.

It is therefore irritating – and I’m not saying you are among this number, I simply used your representative post as a springboard for my comment – when people like Father Z and various people on this forum make it sound as though transferring feasts and removing obligations is some sort of uniquely post-Vatican II syndrome, which must be tied up with modernism, “flower power,” and the like.

I think that your point should be stretched even to the 7th century. The historical formulation of the Roman Liturgical Calendar has been affected by the issue of too many feasts that were happening especially on Sundays and thus risking to obscure the importance of the Easter Sunday and of the other Sundays. This is not simply a post Vat II problem. I also do not think that the issue is making the HDO invisible, but in obscuring the intrinsic value of the Sunday worship. Is Ascension more important than the Resurrection?

 

[ProVobis]

Is Ascension more important than the Resurrection?

Much of the meaning behind the Ascension is that it occurs 40 days after the Resurrection. (Acts 1:3) I’m no numerologist but I believe the number 40 holds a particular significance in the Bible.

 

[Cristiano]

Much of the meaning behind the Ascension is that it occurs 40 days after the Resurrection. (Acts 1:3) I’m no numerologist but I believe the number 40 holds a particular significance in the Bible.

My point is that Ascension Thursday should be 40 days after Easter. I think that we should keep Sundays for their original purpose and not mix them with other feasts.

 

[ProVobis]

My point is that Ascension Thursday should be 40 days after Easter. I think that we should keep Sundays for their original purpose and not mix them with other feasts.

In that case I agree with you.

The Sunday after the Ascension is the Sunday within the Octave of Ascension, octave Sundays having their own special meaning and propers.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Isn’t it odd - the HDO get transferred and yet Ash Wednesday remains a major day with multiple masses and yet is not a HDO. Terrible catechisis. My sixth grade CCD boys all begin the year thinking Ash Wednesday is a HDO - but could not tell you what or when Ascension thursday is?

… and herein lies the problem, the type that takes at least a generation to correct.

 

[MissRose73]

They also get more time off work it seems. I only have 10 days a year. I use some for HDO, but I miss some HDO too to be honest–I just don’t have the time off.

The problem I find is that the Masses start after I have to leave for work, in the middle of the day when I am at work (and are longer than my lunch break), or are so late in the evening (if they even have them in the evening) that they go past my daughter’s bedtime. So in order to go, I need to take the day off.

So I am glad when they are on Sunday, but I understand the argument that blending them with Sunday obligation makes HDO “invisible.”

I sometimes have the same issue with Holy Days and work. I am lucky enough theses days that I can go to an evening Mass at 7pm. Its just a matter of finding out which parishes offer them. If its a normal day off for me, then I can go to an earlier Mass. Prior to my current schedule to go to HDO Masses, I had to take a partial day off with or without pay to go to Mass.