Why is Christ's Baptism more important than Christmas to Eastern Christians?

[OrdinaryMelkite]

Happy Christ’s Birthday!!! Question to fellow Eastern Catholics and Orthodox from an EC who has not totally learned the importance of ALL the “Eastern” rituals:

Just got off celebrating the liturgy at the Melkite Church here in Augusta, Ga. Great, solemn service we had here to a packed church.

The thing is, Christmas to the Orthodox (according to what I, a relatively new convert, found out last year) is not THE celebration, unlike the RC. It is Christ’s Baptism that is supposedly THE celebration in most of the Orthodox world

WHY is that? I’ve SORT of been told here, but I’d like to hear it from folks here.

Just wanted to ask people here-------Merry Christmas, again!!

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Happy Christ’s Birthday!!! Question to fellow Eastern Catholics and Orthodox from an EC who has not totally learned the importance of ALL the “Eastern” rituals:

Just got off celebrating the liturgy at the Melkite Church here in Augusta, Ga. Great, solemn service we had here to a packed church.

The thing is, Christmas to the Orthodox (according to what I, a relatively new convert, found out last year) is not THE celebration, unlike the RC. It is Christ’s Baptism that is supposedly THE celebration in most of the Orthodox world

WHY is that? I’ve SORT of been told here, but I’d like to hear it from folks here.

Just wanted to ask people here-------Merry Christmas, again!!

First, this is the Eastern Catholic forum so asking why something is so for the Orthodox is not proper here.

Second, THE celebration for Eastern Christians, and I am sure it is so for Western ones as well, is the Resurrection.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

First, this is the Eastern Catholic forum so asking why something is so for the Orthodox is not proper here.

Second, THE celebration for Eastern Christians, and I am sure it is so for Western ones as well, is the Resurrection.

Hi, ByzCath!!! Happy Christ’s Birthday to you and yours!!

You know as well as I do, though, that Orthodox frequent the EC forum as well as th rest of CAF all the time. Hesychios is an outstanding example of that.

I should have posted-------“This question is adressed to any fellow ECs and any Orthodox posting here.”
Maybe that should clarify my intent.

Oh, I know it is supposed to be the Resurrection for ECs----I personally agree with that. The thing is, unfortunately, that some in my Melkite Church insist it is the Baptism----at least that it is as equal in importance as Pascha/the Resurrection. I don’t think that is right-----

Are there any other ECs----Melkite and non-melkite----that can enlighten me on this? Maybe some Orthodox?

 

[Mickey]

The thing is, unfortunately, that some in my Melkite Church insist it is the Baptism----at least that it is as equal in importance as Pascha/the Resurrection.

I have never heard of such a thing from Eastern Catholics or Orthodox.

Although Holy Theophany is a Great Feast day, Pascha has always been the Feast of Feasts.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

I have never heard of such a thing from Eastern Catholics or Orthodox.

Although Holy Theophany is a Great Feast day, Pascha has always been the Feast of Feasts.

Thank you for confirming that, Mickey.

I thought so too----but inexplicably, I had people in my Church who think different. You can imagine the confusion. I’m going to ask my priest about this, f course, but I wanted (name removed by moderator)ut from people here.

Thanks again for the (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

This question is not entirely without merit. The Feast of the Theophany (or Epiphany, if you prefer) was and still is considered to be the culmination of this joyous festal season.

Vestiges of the older “perception” (Theophany > Nativity) and the basis for such still exist today. Recall the Twelve Days of Christmas? They end with the Theophany!

There are still many Eastern and Western European cultures where gifts are exchanged not on Christmas, but on the Feast of the Three Kings (Magi) on the day prior to the Theophany. It is still old “Rus” custom to exchange gifts on the day of the Theophany (I do this with my children, and they think of it as “little Christmas” - they get a religiously oriented gift on that day).

In this regard, the Feast of the Nativity marks the beginning of a short but deeply meaningful festal period, when after a preparatory period of fasting and prayer (St. Philip’s fast), we first receive the newborn Savior and then are reminded anew that He is no mere mortal - He is the Word made flesh, as confirmed by the Word of God Himself when Jesus was baptised by John in the Jordan.

Both the Nativity and Theophany are among the Great Feasts of Our Lord, as per Eastern tradition.

But of course, as already said, all of this serves only to reflect on the Feast of Feasts, the Resurrection of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

We properly reflect in the prayers and hymns for the Nativity that the Word became flesh, for our salvation and redemption, as realized through His death and resurrection. Let us recall this joyously this Christmas and for all to come (i.e. in modern lingo, let’s keep Christ in Christmas)!

In sum, I believe a lot of the “perception” that Theophany is or was a greater feast than Nativity is simply a result of old custom that lingers in the memories of some, but again, its important to note that the feasts were always linked, with the culmination being the revelation of Christ as the Son of God on Theophany (Greek, meaning “appearance of God”). Thought of in this light, it is relatively simple to see the natural linkage of these two Great Feasts.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

P.S. To suggest that either the Nativity or Theophany (or any other feast, Great, Solemn, Simple or otherwise) is equal in importance to Pascha is utterly inconsistent with Christian thought in general, Catholic thought in particular.

P.P.S. Merry Christmas! Christ is born! Glorify Him!
:angel1:

 

[Vico]

Happy Christ’s Birthday!!! Question to fellow Eastern Catholics and Orthodox from an EC who has not totally learned the importance of ALL the “Eastern” rituals:

Just got off celebrating the liturgy at the Melkite Church here in Augusta, Ga. Great, solemn service we had here to a packed church.

The thing is, Christmas to the Orthodox (according to what I, a relatively new convert, found out last year) is not THE celebration, unlike the RC. It is Christ’s Baptism that is supposedly THE celebration in most of the Orthodox world

WHY is that? I’ve SORT of been told here, but I’d like to hear it from folks here.

Just wanted to ask people here-------Merry Christmas, again!!

St. John Chrysostom says of Theophany:

“First of all therefore, it is necessary to say that there is not one Theophany, but two: the one actual, which already has occurred, and the second in future, which will happen with glory at the end of the world.”
…

“Why then is this day called Theophany? Because Christ made Himself known to all – not then when He was born – but then when He was baptised. Until this time He was not known to the people. And that the people did not know Him, Who He was, listen about this to John the Baptist, who says: “Amidst you standeth, Him Whom ye know not of” (Jn.1:26).”

legacy.oca.org/FSsermons-details.asp?SID=4&ID=5

Saint Gregory Thaumatourgos says of Nativity:

Together all do celebrate this joyous feast, beholding God upon the earth, and mankind of earth amidst the heavens. By Divine providence the far distant are uplifted to the highest, and the highest, through the love of God for mankind, have bent down to the far distant, wherefore the MostHigh, through His humility, “is exalted through humility.” On this day of great festivity Bethlehem hath become like unto heaven, taking place amidst the glittering stars are Angels singing glory, and taking the place of the visible sun – is the indefinable and immeasurable Sun of Truth, having made all things that do exist.

legacy.oca.org/FSsermons-details.asp?SID=4&ID=4

 

[Volodymyr]

Theophany Nativity

It is interesting that Jordan feast - or Theophany is celebrated by Orthodox Church with much ceremony and many traditions - including water blessing - that is not common in Western christianity. But Mikail E. Posnov in his book Gnosticism of second century and victorу Christian Church over it - shows that first people to celebrate Nativity of Christ was Gnostics. Nativity was not celebrated even in Roman church until 270 AD. Gnostics more interested in appearance in flesh of the aeon Christ. In many parts of ancient Christianity, Nativity and Theophany were one first - only definitely separated to give a orthodox character to what was then a Gnostic Holiday. Roman church selected December 25 for such Holiday. But ancient feast probably of Syrian origin of Theopany celebrated much earlier. For those who speak Russian, this book on Gnosticism is available on internet web:
krotov.info/history/00/posnov/19_posn.htm

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Theophany Nativity

It is interesting that Jordan feast - or Theophany is celebrated by Orthodox Church with much ceremony and many traditions - including water blessing - that is not common in Western christianity.

This is still very much the case in the Byzantine-Ruthenian Catholic Church, as well. Water is blessed annually on this feast day, and Theophany is one of the days of precept (obligation) under the particular law of this sui juris church. I am fairly certain the Ukrainian Greek Catholics follow the same practice.