Why is God a he? (I'm trying not to be a feminist)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ima_Dufus
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I

Ima_Dufus

Guest
I am having a bit of a spiritual/psychological struggle that is detrimental to finding my vocation as Catholic woman (btw, I’m 20 years old), and I would appreciated if someone who is theologically sound can offer me some advice. I’ve never talked to anyone about these things before, because I have no one who I trust enough to confide in, and I am generally not one to vent my problems on other people, but this issue has been driving me nuts for years and I’ve realized that I need to swallow my pride and get help. I am struggling with themes related to Ephesians 5:22-24, the creation and fall of Adam and Eve, authority, and the nature of God. It’s going to take a few paragraphs to summarize my questions.
I’ll begin with Adam and Eve. After they disobeyed God, they fell from grace, and thus caused all of humanity yet to be born to have disordered passions causing them to sin and suffer the effects of sin. God said to Adam that he would have to work “by the sweat of his brow,” and to Eve: “yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you” (Gen 3:16b). In this fallen world, women are at a disadvantage in terms of vulnerability given their lesser physical size and strength. I thought this apparent unfairness was because of sin. But, I heard a priest explain (in accordance with the Church fathers) that in the Bible, when someone names someone or something else, it is a sign of their authority over it. God named the various components of creation, and then Adam. However, he gave Adam the authority to name the animals, and to name Eve. Therefore, a man’s authority over his wife is by God’s design. I understand that authority the way God intended is meant to protect and serve those under it. I understand that the suffering resulting from abused authority is the result of sin, not God’s plan.
That point brings us to Ephesians 5:22-24, the passage where St. Paul tells wives to be submissive to their husbands and husbands to love their wives as Christ loves his Church. I understand that he is putting a heavy demand on the man, not just the woman. The husband’s role is a role of great servitude, as Christ serves his Church.
Now I am about to explain my stumbling block. Jesus deliberately chose men to be priests, the authority figures of the Church, which makes sense given that men naturally possess the type of strength and authority that both men and women naturally respect and obey. Priests are the representatives of Christ, and they represent Him in a way that a woman cannot. They are sons of God that represent the Father in a way a daughter cannot. As a female, this concept makes me feel as though women are made in a lesser image of God with inferior attributes of God. I know that I must not be seeing this right, and that this anguished feeling of being short-changed by God must be the result of my own pride and envy and the ploys of the devil. But I can’t help but perceive being excluded and deemed inferior. I try hard to love God, but I feel bitter at Him for making women weaker on purpose, and then putting men in charge.
I have more to say, but I need to continue on another thread…
 
I have never approved of the feminists because of their immoral stances on abortion and contraception that lead to the death of children and enable men to treat women as objects. I have also been repulsed by their whiny, irate, accusatory, and selfish attitudes. I have also never been partial to “girl-power” fiction because I find that it often does not reflect reality. I understand that the feminist ideology ultimately leads to death, and it is self-loathing in its very nature. It rejects what it means to be a woman, which leads women to act in ways that are not true to themselves, which makes them unhappy. Feminism also enables fallen men to shirk their responsibilities and act in the immoral ways that I detest. Militant feminists do not possess the admirable qualities of either gender. Feminism has also served as a gateway for a variety of absurd and profane gender identity ideologies that have caused great suffering, loss of life, and loss of souls.
Although I do not agree with the feminists, I can empathize with them. We live in a world where personal achievements bring us earthly glory. It just seems as though men are privileged with the qualities that are necessary to lead nations, fight battles, advance technology, and pioneer every field of academic study, and all sorts of cool stuff that fascinate and inspire both men and women alike. The role of the woman, the mother, although vital for the formation of every person and the preservation of every culture, seems to be held in lesser esteem. Although widely appreciated, the feminine role seems to be less revered and glorified. In the spheres of both the worldly and the spiritual, it seems as though men get to do all the spectacular stuff. I am a competitive person and have my self-worth tied up with my achievements, so it’s hard for me not to feel inadequate.
I am a devout Catholic. I want to live and die for the truth, to do the will of God, to go to Heaven and help bring as many souls with me as possible. I know these things can only be done through the grace of God, through the intercession of Mary, and through the authority of the Church. Yet I am afflicted with a temptation to be resentful of the designs of God that are ingrained in the Faith that I love. The Church is led by men, and the heroes in the Bible are overwhelming male, serving as a typological representation of God, who is understood to be masculine. Men have the same pronouns as God, and I don’t; this bothers me for some reason. But I want to be who God wants me to be.
I know that the teachings of the Church are true, and that the precepts and designs of God are perfect. They are what allow humanity to flourish. Satan hates us and wants us to reject truth, and therefore deceives us to annihilate us. We are many parts in the Mystical Body of Christ, and we must do our part. I want to do my part, to be a part of it.
But how do I overcome these feelings of resentment, this perception of unfairness, this sense of self-loathing, and my lack of understanding and trust?
 
I remember when I was younger I thought, “I never want to get married because all men are porn-addicted losers or they’re like my dad.” Maybe I’m just hypersensitive to the disrespect and licentiousness that I perceive in my male peers, but I find that they are so derogatory that they make me feel uncomfortable and undignified in my own skin. (I was never able to understand how other women could dress immodestly and not feel wretched about it.) My dad on the other hand, although not licentious, seems to have a condescending attitude towards women. (It appears that my brothers have adopted this attitude as well, which is annoying because I think my brothers are quite spineless.) He stereotypes them as being fickle, irrational, and weak. Ironically, he is the most emotionally immature person in the house. He often rants about the women in his politically-correct work environment. Although he has many valid complaints, he speaks very disrespectfully about them while praising his male co-workers.
I guess the bottom line is, I feel like the archetype of secondary-ness. God is our “father” who is the one we worship. The Church is our “mother,” and although it is great beyond my understanding, it is still a created thing. I feel intense guilt about this sentiment, because Christ himself “did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped, but rather humbled himself.” I guess that the desire for independence from God and desire for equality with God is the crux of the human condition.
But this conflict has been bothering me for years. Why did God become a man? (I know – if he became a woman, that would be really weird.) Why did he make them physically faster, stronger, and sturdier? Why did he make their brains more adept in math and science? Why did he reserve the priesthood for them only and give them the ability to forgive sins, and cast out demons, and celebrate the Mass? I feel like women are existentially short-changed. I feel like I have nothing to offer. I feel like I am nothing of value, that I have nothing but my sins. I feel like all my struggles and sufferings are insignificant. I feel like this bitterness that I feel is disgusting in the eyes of God. I feel like I have no purpose. I feel so far away from God, and that this division is all my fault.
I have always felt like a total misfit. As a child, I didn’t really relate to the other girls – we just weren’t interested in the same things. I got along much better with the boys, until middle school. Then I really didn’t fit in with any of the kids. Although I do not question my identity as a woman, I am not stereotypical. And, as you now know, I feel discontented about being a woman. But I will keep fighting, and I have faith that God will deliver me from these problems. I won’t go into my whole life story, but life has been very hard for me. Now, I am intensely thirsting for a purpose in my life. I have prayed and prayed, but do not have any sense of what to do.
 
Perhaps in the middle Eastern culture 2000 years ago. But what qualities would you say make God seem more analogous to male than female?
 
Last edited:
The fact that the Second Person of the Trinity is male? Since there are three Divine Persons but One God, the fact that the Holy Spirit 'overshadowed Mary", and the fact that Jesus Christ Himself actually told us to pray, “Father” the consensus seems a bit overwhelming that God, The Supreme Being, while as a Spirit ‘neither’ male nor male, yet in the Second Person is not simply God/Spirit but MALE human, and thus is “Father, Son, and Spirit” (and not "Mother, daughter, and spirit).
And I’m a woman. I don’t feel resentful.
 
I’m sorry but the OP’s first posts are three big walls of text, which is hard to read and furthermore makes it hard to identify what questions are being asked.

My personal belief is that God is all genders and no gender, because God is beyond the concept of “gender” as we know it. However, Jesus presented God to us as being a loving father, and indeed God was the actual father of Jesus for purposes of Jesus’ human conception. Humans understand a father to be a male. That is why we normally think of God as a “he”. Jesus of course was also a male and a “he”.

I have no idea how this relates to anything else the OP posted because like I said I can’t follow all that. Sorry.
 
Last edited:
Maybe I’ll try summarise OPs problem.

Q1 Why did God make a male dominated world (both biological, societal)? Although God is supposed to be non gender, Jesus was a man, priests are men, Jesus asked us to call God father etc.

Q2 what is the solution to this perceived imbalance of gender? Feminism is not the answer obviously, but neither is just accepting males are dominating.
 
I think it has to do with strength. Throughout history males have been physically bigger and stronger than females and thus dominant.
 
Thanks for that, I’ll try to answer your questions as presented.
ratio1 said:
Q1 Why did God make a male dominated world (both biological, societal)?
Click to expand...
He didn’t. Any imbalance in how one group of people are treated comes primarily from the sins and shortcomings of people in looking down on one or the other gender. The Church, including Jesus, have repeatedly taught against doing this.

Sometimes it takes society a while to get on board with treating all groups of people with respect and dignity regardless of gender or anything else. And “society” might include some members of the clergy who had bias or disrespect in their treatment of women - but the vast majority of clergy I’ve met in my lifetime were not like that.

As far as Jesus being a man, etc. Jesus had to operate in the culture of the time and His mission was much easier to carry out as a man than as a woman. it was a practical matter. He chose male Apostles for the same reason, but He had plenty of women followers mentioned in the Scripture and many women helped the Apostles or engaged in evangelization of their own - this is also recounted in Scripture.
Q2 what is the solution to this perceived imbalance of gender? Feminism is not the answer obviously, but neither is just accepting males are dominating.
Click to expand...
I’m a simple bear who has never been denied an opportunity based on my gender, except for the priesthood.

With respect to the priesthood, I accept that God wanted me personally to do something else and that if God wants to generally change the make-up of the priesthood (by including women or married males) then He will inspire, guide and move His Church in the right direction, so I don’t worry about it.

With respect to secular society, like I said I never experienced a power imbalance and I appreciate that is partly due to a lot of women who fought hard to get women the right to vote, attend school and hold down good jobs in my country and get paid the same as a man, and get necessary maternity leave and child care benefits. We should continue to work towards those goals for women in countries where women do not have these opportunities.

That’s the extent of my giving this matter any thought. I find that sitting around dwelling on some perceived imbalance or oppression is non-productive and fosters a lot of needless talk and victim thinking. I avoid joining “women’s groups” or “feminists” etc because too many of them are all hung up on complaining about men which is boring, and/or supporting abortion which I don’t support. Women who want to actually do something just go out and do it. They find ways. They don’t even think that much about being a woman while they’re finding the way. Many of the female saints were awesome role models and pioneers in this respect.
 
And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.

But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things,
Click to expand...
Yeah I think I’m gonna go with Jesus on this one.
 
I see you wrote a new post… having read the block, I think your concerns much paralleled mine over the years, but I came to a few conclusions that could ultimately help. This may take a few posts as well. First, you have:
Ima_Dufus said:
Jesus deliberately chose men to be priests, the authority figures of the Church, which makes sense given that men naturally possess the type of strength and authority that both men and women naturally respect and obey. Priests are the representatives of Christ, and they represent Him in a way that a woman cannot. They are sons of God that represent the Father in a way a daughter cannot. As a female, this concept makes me feel as though women are made in a lesser image of God with inferior attributes of God.
Click to expand...
The priest’s manhood is indeed an essential feature because he, acting in persona Christi, relates to the Church in the way Christ relates to the Church, (i.e., as husband and wife). However, this reasoning seems to be historically the less referred to one in the scriptures and by the Church.

The other reason was from Paul. Paul also gives the practical aspect to why men are the ones who must be priests, namely the issue of propensity to being deceived. In the creation account, Adam fell through weakness of will, but Eve fell through deception of the mind. Paul’s idea is that you generally want people who are less liable to deception via heresy and whatnot. However, women being more easily deceived is not because they are overall weaker in mind. It’s because, in part, we are overall more sensitive to our environments. This can lead both to “false positives” and “true positives” (while men will have more “false negatives” and “true negatives”), so to speak, in that while women might be susceptible to falsehoods, they are also more sensitive to truth (consider the fact that women tend to be more spiritually sensitive as a whole. Yet if you are leading a people, you probably will need to be more cautious.

However, note that Eve did not fall because she was weak. she was stronger than Adam in that she actually put up a fight. If you look closely, Adam was with Eve the entire time that she was being tempted, but said nothing. And you see this sort of thing with men today. Men can take charge and all, but they also can be rather weak willed, and I think in a way that women generally are not. Again generally speaking, their emotions are tied more to their drives and motivations, while ours are tied more to our perceptions and reasoning. Having a role reserved for men ensures that they do not do what Adam did. It also ensures that men actually do participate to some extent in the life of the Church. After all, Christianity itself, even since the early Church, was more likely to attract women than men, and most ministries and services in the Church are run by women rather than men. We don’t need an official authority to be leaders in the Church, but men need to be appointed in order to be motivated lol.
 
Last edited:
Ima_Dufus said:
We live in a world where personal achievements bring us earthly glory. It just seems as though men are privileged with the qualities that are necessary to lead nations, fight battles, advance technology, and pioneer every field of academic study, and all sorts of cool stuff that fascinate and inspire both men and women alike
Click to expand...
Three things here:
  1. Those discoveries that we all know and love tend to be done by a very small portion of men (and a few women) in society. Most men end up taking the all too forgotten roles of fathers, working and middle class laborers, etc. These are not all that esteemed either.
  2. A lot of this has to do with focus: A man will focus on a specific task or skill set. The result is that he can help and influence a large amount of people with jis specialized skills, but in a limited way. On the other hand, a woman has to develop a wide range of skills but in an even-handed way (and in practice to a more limited extent), and then puts her focus on a few people whom she greatly influences. St. Edith Stein (a female philosopher specializing in phenomenology and philosophy of education) gives a good reason for why this tends to be the case. I recommend that you read her stuff on women, because she has some really good insights all the while staying true to the Church.
  3. As for recognition, history tends to be focused on people who have wide but not deep influence (so it will favor male (name removed by moderator)ut), rather than deep but not wide influence (which would favor female (name removed by moderator)ut). If you change how you do history to looking at the general trends of the common folk, with less reference to specific people and events, and more towards sociological trends, the recognition evens out much more. Also, once you talk to individual people and the sorts of impacts others had in their lives, this is where women are far more likely to shine.
 
Ima_Dufus said:
I guess the bottom line is, I feel like the archetype of secondary-ness. God is our “father” who is the one we worship. The Church is our “mother,” and although it is great beyond my understanding, it is still a created thing.
Click to expand...
I totally empathize. This was resolved for me when I became acquainted with how the bible ascribes feminine attributes to God. The personal/ relational words (He, Father, Son) that we use for God tend to be masculine, and this likely to emphasize how God is supposed to relate to us. However the best place where we see God’s “femininity” involves a reference to God in terms of an attribute. We best see this is in the wisdom literature in the figure of wisdom (though this isn’t the only feminine reference). In some cases, Wisdom seems to be a feature of creation, but in other cases it refers to God in his wisdom. The figure is a feminine figure, and a lot of the wisdom literature speaks of the path of holiness in terms of pursuing Wisdom like a lover pursues his beloved.

However, I tend to extend this attributional approach to the other attributes in the following manner. When you look at ancient mythology, you also tend to see that mythical figures with the names of virtues tend to be female rather than male. There are probably male centric reasons for this, namely that the pursuit of truth and virtue should be seen much like a love affair, much like Solomon does with Wisdom, but I think there is an impulse of insight behind it. Namely, it’s that if men pursue such things, women emulate or instantiate them. Now, we as Catholics see God’s attributes not as things that God has, but rather that he is those things himself. God is Goodness itself, Truth itself, Wisdom itself etc. But then we as women can easily reflect God’s image precisely in the way we carry ourselves, as instantiations or emanations of wisdom, truth, goodness, beauty, justice, etc.
 
Last edited:
OK last one.
Ima_Dufus said:
Why did he make them physically faster, stronger, and sturdier? Why did he make their brains more adept in math and science?
Click to expand...
Can I ask you a question? Are you a female in STEM? Because the second question initially bothered me as well and I’m a math grad student.

As for men being faster, stronger, and sturdier. This is largely all about evolutionary division of labor. At least on a practical level, we had the task of making ze babiez. To do this, we had to have a certain level of endurance, toleration for pain, and sensitivity to be able to communicate with ze babiez without words. We also have greater dexterity (hence why women in particular developed textile arts). We can do all these things that men can’t do, but that puts us at a more vulnerable stage. So how do women and babies survive when they are vulnerable? Well that’s where ze men come in. The speed and strength are largely there for protection or acquisition of food. Men would hunt, sometimes for days. They would have to be able to protect their women and children from threats (like animals or, well, other men). If women put themselves at risk in order to make babies, men put themselves at risk to protect their families.

As for math and science, this is actually untrue. In the biological sciences, women and men are equal in number, and female doctors now outnumber male doctors. In mathematics, while men have been shown to have better spacial reasoning, women tend to be better at computational reasoning, and the gap between men and women in mathematics is closing. In computer science, the reason for the large dominance in men has to do far more with the promotion of programming as a boy thing in the 70s, combined with the modern capitalistic and economically competitive environment of tech. But programming in its early years was increasingly a woman’s thing (with a peak of 40% of programmers being women before the commercialization of tech). Interestingly enough, when it came to programming, men tended to orient more towards hardware, but women towards software. Engineering is the one field that seems to have always leaned male. I think that one will be harder to budge since the material is more concrete and initially involves tinkering, but the disparity has less to do with ability than with general interest.
 
One poster mentioned the culture 2000 years ago. In that cultured, women and children had no “official” standing. The could not be a witness in court. A woman could stand ten feet from a murder and her word in court was worthless. This was the society in which Jesus lived.
Actually, understanding the stature of women back then, and their standing in Jewish law and culture, much of what Jesus taught was supportive of women. His decree about divorce for instance was one instance. Others can be found if you look more critically.
One of the teachings of the Talmud I like is the idea that (using the Genesis account), as God created, each successive creation took on a more noble and dignified nature. And what was the last thing God created, right, Eve, woman. I think there is an object lesson in this that is important to understand. And abide by. Men should have a profound respect for woman as God did in his creation of her. Something that needs to be emphasized more and more in this society and by this Church. Something more than a flower after Mass on Mother’s Day.
Oh, and I am no “feminist” myself. Men and women were created for, and have different talents, abilities, and functions. They are not equal and never have been, nor were intended to be.
Shalom
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top