Why is it that maritial arts were developed in the Shaolin temple?

[sidetrack]

The Shaolin style of wushu (Chinese maritial arts) was one the first instituitionalized martial art forms.I’ve once heard how it was developed because a long time ago the monks in that temple were continually robbed and developed that martial art as a mean to defend themselves.I’ve wondered though how is that a monastic community (which is peaceful as I guess all of them are regardless of religion) could develop a fighting technique even if used strictly as a means of self-defense.I could accept it being used as like exercise though.I mean were the robberies* really *that bad or were there other reasons as well?.Please respond with serious answers because I know that when people think of Shaolin kunf-fu a whole bunch of stuff brought on by mostly popculture spring to mind.Thnak you very much so your time and replies.

 

[Ahimsa]

The Shaolin style of wushu (Chinese maritial arts) was one the first instituitionalized martial art forms.I’ve once heard how it was developed because a long time ago the monks in that temple were continually robbed and developed that martial art as a mean to defend themselves.I’ve wondered though how is that a monastic community (which is peaceful as I guess all of them are regardless of religion) could develop a fighting technique even if used strictly as a means of self-defense.I could accept it being used as like exercise though.I mean were the robberies* really *that bad or were there other reasons as well?.Please respond with serious answers because I know that when people think of Shaolin kunf-fu a whole bunch of stuff brought on by mostly popculture spring to mind.Thnak you very much so your time and replies.

There’s nothing incompatible about monasticism and knowing how to defend oneself.

 

[Lokabrenna]

The idea that Buddhist monks were always non-violent and peaceful is a misconception. In fact, King Asoka, one of the more famous converts to Buddhism, continued his warmongering after his conversion.

The fact is, when you live in an environment that is under constant attack from bandits/neighbouring clans/what have you, you need to figure out how to protect yourself. The local warlords aren’t going to do it, they’re too busy fighting!

There’s a famous monastery in Japan called Enryaku-ji. The capital of Japan at the time was Kyoto. The monks that lived at Enryaku-ji were such a nuisance to the Emperor (any time he made a decision they didn’t like–they brought troops), he moved the capital to get away from them! You need a lot of military clout to force the ruler of your country to turn tail and run.

 

[Ahimsa]

The idea that Buddhist monks were always non-violent and peaceful is a misconception. In fact, King Asoka, one of the more famous converts to Buddhism, continued his warmongering after his conversion.

I’m not sure if Ashoka ever became a monk, and I doubt that he engaged in extensive warmongering after converting to Buddhism.

 

[Lokabrenna]

I’m not sure if Ashoka ever became a monk, and I doubt that he engaged in extensive warmongering after converting to Buddhism.

I can’t remember where I heard about any violence post-conversion, but you’re right, he wouldn’t have become a monk, and leave India without any protection? Um, no.

And now that I’ve actually checked, all sources seem to agree that he had embraced non-violence as a general policy, but I don’t think he would just up and say: “Okay guys, I know we have neighbours around who would probably like to kill us, so let’s just lay down our weapons and have a nice chat with them instead.” It’s worth noting that the laity are exempt from certain precepts, so soldiers could keep doing their jobs.

Other than that, disregard the warmongering part, although I’m sure there are cases of rulers who were…a little lax on the non-violence.

As for the monks themselves, Wikipedia mentions that they basically invented new lore to justify having to defend themselves. I imagine that certain tenets of the faith were seen as…quite impractical…at certain times.

tl;dr version: People like to bend the rules when their lives are at stake.

 

[Ahimsa]

As for the monks themselves, Wikipedia mentions that they basically invented new lore to justify having to defend themselves. I imagine that certain tenets of the faith were seen as…quite impractical…at certain times.

The Chinese cultures differed from those of India, in terms of how the Chinese viewed monks who did not work. In India, non-working monks were highly valued as sources of blessing and spiritual power; and so, Buddhist monks could go from house to house, and be provided with food from devoted laypeople. And, most likely, Buddhist monks in India would be, in large part, protected from overt violence, because of their perceived holiness.

In China, there was no such veneration of non-working monks, so when Buddhist got to China, Buddhist monks had to grow their own food, work on their own land, and figure out ways to defend themselves in a place were their holiness was not taken for granted.

Of course, the Buddhist monks in China did not have to develop martial arts; they could have just let their safety (and the presence of Buddhism in China) exist at the mercy of robbers and warlords, but bodhisattva-vowed monks likely would have seen that as an unsatisfactory way to live.

 

[Spencerian]

I have little to add except that I nearly spitooied my drink through the nose when I saw the misspelled title of the thread:

"Why is it that maritial arts were developed in the Shaolin temple?"

I thought (until I opened the thread to see the actual topic), “My, as if *that *skill needed any kind of reformation…”

 

[sidetrack]

I have little to add except that I nearly spitooied my drink through the nose when I saw the misspelled title of the thread:

"Why is it that maritial arts were developed in the Shaolin temple?"

I thought (until I opened the thread to see the actual topic), “My, as if *that *skill needed any kind of reformation…”

@ Spencerian

(Oohh dear)… 0_0.Thank you very much so Spencerian for pointing that out.I meant to say “martial arts” definately not “maritial arts”.This has’nt been the first time that I’ve felt like changing the title of a thread I’ve posted just to say.

 

[Warrior1979]

The Shaolin style of wushu (Chinese maritial arts) was one the first instituitionalized martial art forms.

Wushu is the incorrect term to use. It’s more modern in origin, and basically a pure martial art devoid of any religious element. Chuan Fa, or sometimes Chan Chuan, are more correct terms.

Martial arts existed well before Shaolin Temple ever existed. The Indian martial art of Kshatriya is the most relevant example, since the martial arts at Shaolin are based on it.

I’ve once heard how it was developed because a long time ago the monks in that temple were continually robbed and developed that martial art as a mean to defend themselves.I’ve wondered though how is that a monastic community (which is peaceful as I guess all of them are regardless of religion) could develop a fighting technique even if used strictly as a means of self-defense.I could accept it being used as like exercise though.I mean were the robberies* really *that bad or were there other reasons as well?.Please respond with serious answers because I know that when people think of Shaolin kunf-fu a whole bunch of stuff brought on by mostly popculture spring to mind.Thnak you very much so your time and replies.

The first “martial arts” at Shaolin were really along the lines of qi gong exercises. Buddhists monks would meditate for long periods of time and became physically weak. So weak, in fact, that they would fall asleep. The exercises helped them to build their physical strength and stamina.

The martial aspect we know today developed over time. The martial art is both offensive and defensive in nature. Being that the monks are Buddhist, they would only use the art in very specific situations. This is also one reason that what the monks practice should not be referred to as wushu, because wushu is typically associated with sport fighting, which monks do not so. That’s the reason why you didn’t see any monks in any martial arts events in the Beijing Olympics.

 

[Sheldrake]

I am Chinese and I have grown-up to like Chinese Martial Arts since a young boy.

According to history, it is true that the monks in Shaolin Temple have trained themselves to be physically fit by practicing wushu. Pardon me for the limited knowledge but I understand that the purpose of practicing was three folds: -

1. Strengthening (due to long hours of meditation, chanting of scriptural texts and prayer)
2. Self-defence (in-line with the need to defend the temple from warlords in the ancient times)
3. Self-discipline and cultivation of virtues

Martial arts gradually developed over many generations of monks that have came and left. I saw in a Chinese documentary that because the movements (i.e. the stances, kicks, blocks, punches etc) were based on very practical real-life offensive and defensive tactics, it was subject to improvements and refinements. Since the entry into the religious life was relatively open, it attracted many experienced martial arts experts to contribute and refine. Thus, the many generations that come after gets to learn the best.

Over the period of the rules of the dynasties, there were many attempts that the Shaolin Temple faced attacks. Thus, they had to fend for themselves. These were real threats and the monks had to ensure the continuity and the survival of their fellow-monks and to also care for the innocent and defenseless.

I also know that the extent of the damages to Shaolin Temple are extensive and restoration works are still not completed even today. But the tradition and life of a Shaolin monk vis-a-vis the spread of Buddhism continues to grow even now.

Nevertheless, my heart is forever Catholic. I practice Shaolin Wushu for good health and fitness.

 

[Izdaari]

What if an Asian monk had come to the West in the Middle Ages, and taught martial arts to Catholic monks? And what if it had caught on? Just a stray but perhaps interesting thought.

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

Wushu is the incorrect term to use. It’s more modern in origin, and basically a pure martial art devoid of any religious element. Chuan Fa, or sometimes Chan Chuan, are more correct terms.

Martial arts existed well before Shaolin Temple ever existed. The Indian martial art of Kshatriya is the most relevant example, since the martial arts at Shaolin are based on it.

The first “martial arts” at Shaolin were really along the lines of qi gong exercises. Buddhists monks would meditate for long periods of time and became physically weak. So weak, in fact, that they would fall asleep. The exercises helped them to build their physical strength and stamina.

The martial aspect we know today developed over time. The martial art is both offensive and defensive in nature. Being that the monks are Buddhist, they would only use the art in very specific situations. This is also one reason that what the monks practice should not be referred to as wushu, because wushu is typically associated with sport fighting, which monks do not so. That’s the reason why you didn’t see any monks in any martial arts events in the Beijing Olympics.

Warrior has it right, wushu isn’t even a correct term let alone a valid martial art. Once they practice Fut Ga in their art, it might be considered a martial art (and I stress might). And the Shaolin don’t have a monolopy on the Chinese arts. I’ve been a traditional martial artist since I was 12, The art I studied was Tsoi Li Ho Fut Hung Ga (Gongfu San Soo, others call it Sanda or San Shou), the five family nanquan (southern fist) art of the Nan Pai, southern school, and has existed for a thousand years. As a southern fist style, the only thing I have to say to “wushu” practitioners is to stop moving around like a hyperactive child on a sugar rush and start practicing static horse stances to practice balance and shortness of movement to maximize space to your advantage. Root yourself to the earth, and you’ll be unbeatable. Sigh it’s no wonder people like Chin Siu Dek dominated the lei tai platform when death was authorized.

As far as the self-defense issue and monks, the monks had a very different perspective on self-defense then how you see it. The mindset is, if someone is trying to harm another or yourself it is best he loose an eye, or break a leg to avoid bringing about bad karma on the perpetrator. Also, robbery and murder was commonplace on monks who were on pilgrimages on the road, it was essential they know self-defense. Not only was the person doing the act seen bringing about bad karma, but the monk needed to live to complete his spiritual journey to enlightenment otherwise he’d have to reincarnate again and start all over (according to their belief).

 

[Ghosty]

If you really want to have your mind blown regarding Buddhist monks, look up the sohei of Japan (Enryaku-ji, the previously mentioned monastery, is an example of sohei). These guys were nasty, and it wasn’t about defense from robbery. Monasteries would literally go to war over political support and favor, or to wipe out rival Buddhist sects.

There were “fighting monks” of a sort in the West, too. The Templar are an example of this.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Warrior1979]

As far as the self-defense issue and monks, the monks had a very different perspective on self-defense then how you see it. The mindset is, if someone is trying to harm another or yourself it is best he loose an eye, or break a leg to avoid bringing about bad karma on the perpetrator. Also, robbery and murder was commonplace on monks who were on pilgrimages on the road, it was essential they know self-defense. Not only was the person doing the act seen bringing about bad karma, but the monk needed to live to complete his spiritual journey to enlightenment otherwise he’d have to reincarnate again and start all over (according to their belief).

Ditto.

While the monks learned what appears on the outside to be a violent art, it did not mean they were violent. In fact, notice how there weren’t anyone Shaolin monks fighting in the Beijing Olympics? In short, these monks would use the necessary force to fend off the opponent, and no more.