Why is there a 1962 Missal?

[SouthpawLink]

laszlo:

It is clear that the all vernacular was a positive decision, keeping people with the Church.

The numbers (K. Jones, Index of Leading Catholic Indicators) don’t seem to support that idea. Then again, a correlation doesn’t necessarily means there’s a cause and effect relationship. Even still, the Novus Ordo has proven to be disasterous, and Rome has done very little to correct the widespread abuses. We’re only just now – 40 years after the fact – getting a proper translation of the authentic Latin text. That’s simply not acceptable in an era with cars, trains, airplanes, and now e-mail.

Both were reversed by Vatican II as for necessity: the bishops did not
understand each other in Latin.

Why wouldn’t two people speaking the same language (in the same dialect, no less) understand one another? Those bishops read, spoke and wrote in Latin (going back to their seminary days)…

 

[ProVobis]

“Living, spoken languages, English or Spanish for example, are always changing, perpetually and profoundly; it is certain that if our great-grandparents came back to life today, they would have difficulty in understanding the speech of their great-grandchildren. Now to celebrate the Mass in a living language is to condemn the liturgical text to these continual alterations and variations without end. That is what is established undeniably in the multiple editions of the New Mass edited in 1969. That is why it is preferable to preserve the Latin language which is dead i.e. no longer changing. In Fact it well known that the meaning of words is changed in the course of time by every -day usage. Words, which once had a good meaning, are now used in a vulgar or ludicrous sense. The Church, enlightened by the Holy Ghost, has chosen a language that is not liable to such changes.”

catholicapologetics.info/languages/why/latin.htm

 

[ProVobis]

That’s simply not acceptable in an era with cars, trains, airplanes, and now e-mail.

This is true. But after 400 years, they still won’t have a perfect translation into the English. For starters, no first-year Latin student would translate “Dominus vobiscum” as “The Lord be with you.” It’s different theology actually to insert a subjective when there is none.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

I am very sure that the 1962 book is the product of the 1950s and was like a train that had left the station by the time 1962 came along.

Hello 14er,

I doubt he knew exactly what was going to happen, either at the Council or after it. I think his publication of the new edition is at least a strong suggestion that he didn’t think there would be a lot of wholesale changes to the Missal. If he did, you’re right. He would have waited.

Also, there were quite a few changes made by Pope Pius XII in the 1950s and it really became necessary to incorporate all those changes into a new edition of the Missal.

Dan

 

[Cristiano]

The numbers (K. Jones, Index of Leading Catholic Indicators) don’t seem to support that idea. Then again, a correlation doesn’t necessarily means there’s a cause and effect relationship…

So you are saying that there is a correlation but not cause and effect. So what is your point?

:…Even still, the Novus Ordo has proven to be disasterous…

Can you please prove this statement through cause and effect.

I think that you are implicitly trying to makes a haste generalization from a possible correlation to a cause-effect relationship.

 

[Cristiano]

This is true. But after 400 years, they still won’t have a perfect translation into the English. For starters, no first-year Latin student would translate “Dominus vobiscum” as “The Lord be with you.” It’s different theology actually to insert a subjective when there is none.

We just need to keep pushing teaching and explaining basic Latin prayers to the young ones. This is one of the reasons why I like to work as a Catechist, I try to bring in the class as much Latin and Greek as I can to allow the high school students to better understand what things really mean.It looks like that I next year I will have to drive a series of lectures on the Mass for the pre-confirmation and confirmation classes. That will be fun because they want me to explain the theology using the new translation vs. original Latin as a starting point. I am glad that the pastor realizes that most of the kids do not have any clue of the theology of the Mass.

 

[laszlo]

The numbers (K. Jones, Index of Leading Catholic Indicators) don’t seem to support that idea. Then again, a correlation doesn’t necessarily means there’s a cause and effect relationship. Even still, the Novus Ordo has proven to be disasterous, and Rome has done very little to correct the widespread abuses. We’re only just now – 40 years after the fact – getting a proper translation of the authentic Latin text. That’s simply not acceptable in an era with cars, trains, airplanes, and now e-mail.
Why wouldn’t two people speaking the same language (in the same dialect, no less) understand one another? Those bishops read, spoke and wrote in Latin (going back to their seminary days)…

In details, what in your opinion would be effective step to avoid abuses? Related to the liturgy there was disobedience since St Pius X started to push the active participation of the people without strict regulation. What shoud he (St Pius X) and the following popes do to avoid it?

View the lack of proper translation on the perspective that the Latin became dead language sometimes in the 15th century and we get authentic translation used by the Church only 500 years later. For the first 400 years there was no translation at all.

As for not understanding each other, check the history of the Council. On the first session they spoke Latin, than pretty soon changed to 5 official languages with synchronous translators.

 

[ProVobis]

We just need to keep pushing teaching and explaining basic Latin prayers to the young ones. This is one of the reasons why I like to work as a Catechist, I try to bring in the class as much Latin and Greek as I can to allow the high school students to better understand what things really mean.It looks like that I next year I will have to drive a series of lectures on the Mass for the pre-confirmation and confirmation classes. That will be fun because they want me to explain the theology using the new translation vs. original Latin as a starting point. I am glad that the pastor realizes that most of the kids do not have any clue of the theology of the Mass.

That is good.

This may help you.

rickmk.com/Mass/masstext.html