Why isn't there a fool proof NFP?

[LongingSoul]

Are you talking about LH strips (Ovulation Predictor Kits). They’re an ELISA-based test strip that detects the surge of luteinizing hormone that occurs prior to ovulation. The only downside is that women with polycystic ovary syndrome or other ovarian dysfunction have have false positives on the LH strips, and even women with normal ovarian function can have a surge and then end up not ovulating that moth for one reason or another.

Possibly that’s it. When I went through NFP classes 27 years ago, there was no advice about these products.

I think the gist of the issue back then and why the Knights were involved, was that this product was seen as a threat to the burgeoning contraceptives market hence the reason it was shelved.

 

[agapewolf]

Yes! I see no reason that anyone actually interested in abiding by Church teaching should have to pay for instruction on how to abide by Church teaching. And Catholic Medical Schools should be leading the charge here as well; in both research into better ways to p(name removed by moderator)oint days for all women and in educating people on how to use the new methods.

You see no reason? …

A one on one meeting with someone with medical training (thousands of dollars of training, two full weeks of classes with a 9 month practicum clinicals in order to teach it). every two weeks at first, then once a month, then a few times a year for follow up in order to be considered actually using the method.

The information learned is priceless, the tracking of the body and finding possible health issues, someone that can monitor those to recommend further treatment if necessary.

Should all be free. hmmmm

 

[nlizzy88]

I’ve been using NFP wondering the same thing! But I might have found something that’s going to make temperature charting a million times better. It’s a little thermometer you wear at night and automatically records your basal body temperature. It will even send the info to your NFP app on your phone via blue tooth.
I can’t wait to get mine!!
indiegogo.com/projects/fertility-tracking-simply-for-everyone

 

[manualman]

I think if something like this were invented that took out the charting and the perfect use requirements (other than abstaining when the meter said no), that NFP usage would skyrocket.

I think you’re wrong, actually. A woman with a healthy cycle is already going to have 5-7 days a month for menstruation during which, I’d expect, most people abstain. There’s going to be a three day period before and after ovulation where you really need to abstain, so that’s another 7 days lost. So even a perfect p(name removed by moderator)oint of ovulation is going to leave you only 14 out of 28 days in a cycle available.

Most people won’t tolerate that. They’d rather overpower their bodies with pills and devices to get what they want WHEN they want it than to live according to the way the human body was designed.

I also think you’re missing an important factor of NFP actual usage. Those who haven’t lived it usually suspect that NFP users have two kinds of kids: “planned” and “oopsies.” This is false. They think so because contraceptive users only have those two kinds of kids. NFP users have THREE kinds of kids: Planned, Oopsies and “Oh what the heck.” NFP “effectiveness” is usually measured via polls worded like this: “How many kids do you have? Of that number, how many did you intentionally plan to conceive?” Then they assume that the rest are “oopsies,” but it isn’t true. Of the NFP folks I know the majority have at least one “what the heck” baby, sometimes multiples of them. In fact, that’s probably the biggest benefit of NFP: it keeps up the link God designed between passion in marriage and procreation. Properly worded, I betcha that polls would find a LOT less NFP oopsies out there than people think. Sure, I’m aware that some people have really hard cycles to read, but they’re the exception, not the rule.

 

[LongingSoul]

I also think you’re missing an important factor of NFP actual usage. Those who haven’t lived it usually suspect that NFP users have two kinds of kids: “planned” and “oopsies.” This is false. They think so because contraceptive users only have those two kinds of kids. NFP users have THREE kinds of kids: Planned, Oopsies and “Oh what the heck.” NFP “effectiveness” is usually measured via polls worded like this: “How many kids do you have? Of that number, how many did you intentionally plan to conceive?” Then they assume that the rest are “oopsies,” but it isn’t true. Of the NFP folks I know the majority have at least one “what the heck” baby, sometimes multiples of them. In fact, that’s probably the biggest benefit of NFP: it keeps up the link God designed between passion in marriage and procreation. Properly worded, I betcha that polls would find a LOT less NFP oopsies out there than people think. Sure, I’m aware that some people have really hard cycles to read, but they’re the exception, not the rule.

Oh that is quite true. I have one true ‘what the heck’ child which I’d have classed as an ‘oopsy’ if asked. There were many, many ‘what the heck’ moments where I actually felt an odd combination of relief and disappointment when the subsequent period arrived. In different life circumstances, I would happily have lived the ‘what the hecksies’ up until I was about 40. ‘What the heck’ babies do seem more like a special ‘gift’ from God to you than planned and oopsies in my opinion.

 

[NFPWife]

Yes. That’s why I mentioned the “as used” rates. NFP has a high “perfect use” rate but a lower “as used” rate. IUDs and implantable and injected hormonal ABC has the same effective rate for both “perfect use” and “as used” mainly due to the fact that there is nothing the person need do.

My perspective is that the “as used” rate is lower because it allows for the working of the Holy Spirit. If you spend a little time with couples who’ve had those surprise pregnancies (and listen without judgement), you learn that they got a little sloppy with the charting when a baby “wouldn’t be a big deal” or they felt moved to use a day with moderate fertility. A day they knew was outside the guidelines. They have children their meant to have. Motivation for “perfect practice” of NFP lowers in one or both partners and, IMO, it’s not accidental. It’s part of the beauty and mystery of life.

There’s no opportunity to reverse you decision month to month in regards to an IUD, a shot, or sterilization.

 

[Memaw]

Oh that is quite true. I have one true ‘what the heck’ child which I’d have classed as an ‘oopsy’ if asked. There were many, many ‘what the heck’ moments where I actually felt an odd combination of relief and disappointment when the subsequent period arrived. In different life circumstances, I would happily have lived the ‘what the hecksies’ up until I was about 40. ‘What the heck’ babies do seem more like a special ‘gift’ from God to you than planned and oopsies in my opinion.

I have 9 and two were “surprises”. God doesn’t do mistakes, no matter how we try to get around HIM. I had the ole fashioned Rhythm Method to go by. God Bless

 

[The_Bucket]

I think you’re wrong, actually. A woman with a healthy cycle is already going to have 5-7 days a month for menstruation during which, I’d expect, most people abstain. There’s going to be a three day period before and after ovulation where you really need to abstain, so that’s another 7 days lost. So even a perfect p(name removed by moderator)oint of ovulation is going to leave you only 14 out of 28 days in a cycle available.

Most people won’t tolerate that. They’d rather overpower their bodies with pills and devices to get what they want WHEN they want it than to live according to the way the human body was designed.

This is true… and it’s also absurd given the average amount of sex even married secular couples have. Plus not every woman has a 28 day cycle. My wife, for instance, varies between 30-40… but the start/end of the cycle is usually shorter. As in, that 5-7 days for menstruation is more like four.

But yeah, people want “control”… and then they end up with situations where the hormones cause weight gain, moodiness and lower sex drive, etc and they have less sex anyway! Makes absolutely no sense to me. Especially since then if/when you end up with a “surprise” there’s resentment and anger and whatnot.

I also think you’re missing an important factor of NFP actual usage. Those who haven’t lived it usually suspect that NFP users have two kinds of kids: “planned” and “oopsies.” This is false. They think so because contraceptive users only have those two kinds of kids. NFP users have THREE kinds of kids: Planned, Oopsies and “Oh what the heck.” NFP “effectiveness” is usually measured via polls worded like this: “How many kids do you have? Of that number, how many did you intentionally plan to conceive?” Then they assume that the rest are “oopsies,” but it isn’t true. Of the NFP folks I know the majority have at least one “what the heck” baby, sometimes multiples of them. In fact, that’s probably the biggest benefit of NFP: it keeps up the link God designed between passion in marriage and procreation. Properly worded, I betcha that polls would find a LOT less NFP oopsies out there than people think. Sure, I’m aware that some people have really hard cycles to read, but they’re the exception, not the rule.

Right. Something like “expected user failure” or something like that. Basically “we knew we weren’t following the rules but we didn’t really care.” That’s different than “perfect use” failure or “typical use” failure.

 

[gardenswithkids]

…I also think you’re missing an important factor of NFP actual usage. Those who haven’t lived it usually suspect that NFP users have two kinds of kids: “planned” and “oopsies.” This is false. They think so because contraceptive users only have those two kinds of kids. NFP users have THREE kinds of kids: Planned, Oopsies and “Oh what the heck.” NFP “effectiveness” is usually measured via polls worded like this: “How many kids do you have? Of that number, how many did you intentionally plan to conceive?” …

Contraception’s effectiveness also would not accurately represented by such surveys. Many (not all ,but many) who get pregnant while using artificial contraception turn to abortion. Just yesterday. Lifesite News ran an article with recent statistics from a study done in Britain, ***where two thirds of the women who had an abortion reported they’d been using contraception when they got pregnant! ***

This thread asked about fool proof NFP, but the birth control pill is certainly not “fool proof”. Contraceptive users often use abortion as their “back-up” plan. Women don’t often talk about their abortions, so that creates a false sense in the mind of most people about the effectiveness of artificial contraception. However, women become pregnant while using contraception, so contraception is certainly not “fool proof”.

from lifesitenews.com/news/family-planning-and-abortion-two-sides-of-the-same-coin

April 9, 2014- Women claiming their pregnancies are unwanted were “trying hard” to avoid becoming pregnant at the time of conception, according to new data from the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (bpas).

Two thirds of the women who had an abortion at bpas were using a contraceptive, with the contraceptive pill being the most popular. None of the conclusions of the report indicated that the women lacked access to “modern methods of family planning” or that any false perceptions they may have had regarding their own fertility was due to being denied comprehensive sexuality education.

The chief executive of the British Pregnancy Advisory Service, Ann Furedi, said:

…“…Ultimately women cannot control their fertility through contraception alone, and need accessible abortion services as a back-up for when their contraception lets them down.”…

 

[maryjk]

I agree with the person who posted this. I guess they have a few expensive devices out there now that attempt to do something like this, but I suppose they are not perfect.

Wouldn’t it be nice if you could spit into a tube or on a piece of paper and have it turn a certain color if you were ovulating?

For some women, getting pregnant is a death sentence. For women who can’t get pregnant, this would be very useful.

I have noticed that there are a lot of women on these forums who can crank out babies like popping a cork out of a wine bottle! Some of them are very self righteous, and they talk about their successful NFP use and wonder what’s the matter with everyone else.

Some women have horrible pregnancies, where they have to lie in bed for 9 months. Some women have labor from hell and babies that are upside down or backwards, and they need forceps. Some women have such serious health problems that they will die if they get pregnant again. Other women have had multiple miscarriages.

And some women have husbands who won’t cooperate at all!

So yes, I think it would be wonderful if such a thing was invented. And I don’t think it is odd at all that a woman would consider infertility a blessing.

I agree with both of you.

I wouldn’t die if I got pregnant. I would just spend 7 months in bed or in the hospital. Then someone else would have to care for the baby, because it would take a while for me to recover from being off of my meds for so long. Although because I can’t carry a baby to term, the baby might be in the NICU long enough for my recovery.

It would be nice to know for sure if I was fertile or not. And it isn’t about having sex whenever we want it. We have gone for months abstaining because it was just too hard to be sure. Yes, it is a pain when you don’t ovulate every month. So, I am just counting the months until I am blessed with infertility.

 

[maryjk]

After thinking about this throughout the day, I thought of something else I wanted to post.

We are getting closer to a fool proof NFP.

Think about it.

When my parents were becoming parents, their only option was to totally abstain or the Rhythm method.

Now, we can use fertility monitors.

To quote a TV commercial from back then, “We’ve come a long way Baby.”

 

[TMO]

Absolutely. What is the Pontifical Academy of Sciences for if not at least researching this issue?

Yes! I see no reason that anyone actually interested in abiding by Church teaching should have to pay for instruction on how to abide by Church teaching. And Catholic Medical Schools should be leading the charge here as well; in both research into better ways to p(name removed by moderator)oint days for all women and in educating people on how to use the new methods.

Finally people are understanding what this question was about. All the moralists answers missed the whole point, and I completely agree with this answer.

Yes, it would be great if more research was done to make NFP as accesible and easier to understand for everyone. WHY? Not because people want to have sex like bunnies, but because it would also limit the ABC market and would help more people rely on NFP rather than use ABC. Yes it would be awesome, yes the church should invest a little more in this since the family and the life of non born children is so important to us.

Also, Sex IS unitive between man and wife. All those things about being irresponsible for wanting to be with one’s husband feels like being married it’s JUST about having babies, when we know it’s not. WE ARE trying to plan the children we want in our lives, not because we’re perverse, or lustful, but because IT MAKES SENSE to plan your children, specially if you’re struggling with health, finances or any other circumstances. If NFP exists, it’s definetely because God wanted for us to have a tool so we could do this, and because it’s obvious it would be harmful for a woman to get pregnant ALL THE TIME, it’s just not healthy. Blessed are those that have a big family, God gave you that grace to have enought love, attention, affection and money to support your children.

So I totally agree when it comes to support further research to make NFP more reliable. WE DON’T KNOW EVERYTHING about it, and there’s always room for improvement. Maybe there’s something that hasn’t been discovered about it and that could be helpful for everyone

 

[manualman]

Except for the relatively small number of women with chronic health issues that make fertility symptoms ambiguous, NFP is already highly effective. What us “moralists” are pointing out is that when pollsters measure it’s effectiveness, they generally treat it as a method of contraception, which it is not. Contraception is specifically about having sex and not getting babies. If you ask around among NFP users, MOST (not all, of course) “failures” are not cases of couples diligently using the method to avoid pregnancy, but couples who recognized in the crucible of God’s lie detector test that their serious reason to avoid wasn’t really all THAT serious after all. (Oh what the heck…) NFP is about respecting the deeper links in the human soul between that unitive and procreative aspect of intimacy (giving them separate words, suggests that they are separate things, which isn’t true).

Don’t get all huffy with me either, you 14 readers who are the exception to the above. The statistics for NFP “failures” are badly skewed in that they contain many actual NFP SUCCESSES. In other words, NFP allows you to avoid pregnancy without getting snared into the self perpetuating behavior pattern of contraception. It is a success when the difficulty of abstinence results in the couple recognizing their rationalization and deciding to go for it.

The real shame is that those women who suffer from chronic health issues resulting in difficult to read fertility systems are offered NO real help from doctors. They’re handed a pack of pills designed to mask the symptoms and brute force conformance to a periodic hormonal cycle instead of identifying the underling problem and curing it. For completely healthy women, fertility reading is not rocket science. My wife and I have done it for 15 years now via Billings method. It requires little time and no special equipment (admittedly a bit of an increase in yuck factor tolerance is needed. It’s roughly akin to blowing your nose and playing with the snot for a couple seconds before thoroughly washing your hands.).