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JimG
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A mother of seven girls and two boys has some thoughts on the matter.
From the National Catholic Register:
From the National Catholic Register:
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FrDavid96
Guest
Unfortunately, secular society desires the elimination of any possible distinction between the 2 human genders. Even worse, some want to eliminate gender completely.
It’s unhealthy and it’s wrong, but that’s where our Western society is headed. Alas.
It’s unhealthy and it’s wrong, but that’s where our Western society is headed. Alas.
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JimG
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From the article:
“I suppose it was only a matter of time before the BSA went this direction, and I find myself wondering if at some point, single-sex dens won’t be permitted to exist at all.
There is a general suspicion in our modern culture of anything that is limited to boys or men, and an assumption that there’s no potential objective good in allowing for that type of space. Being the rebel that I am though, I am happy to question this assumption.”
I was just happy to read an article by a mom who actually celebrates the differences between her sons and daughters rather than treating them as unisex kids.
“I suppose it was only a matter of time before the BSA went this direction, and I find myself wondering if at some point, single-sex dens won’t be permitted to exist at all.
There is a general suspicion in our modern culture of anything that is limited to boys or men, and an assumption that there’s no potential objective good in allowing for that type of space. Being the rebel that I am though, I am happy to question this assumption.”
I was just happy to read an article by a mom who actually celebrates the differences between her sons and daughters rather than treating them as unisex kids.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
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Good Grief.
Boy scouts decision to let cub scouts (who were never boy scouts, to begin with) enter into a family program is not the tear-down of all boy ventures. Boy Scouts …the actual org for 11-18yo is going to remain all-boy troops.
All they did was insulate themselves from the “boys” with vaginas demanding that they be accommodated. With “girls” with penis’ allowed to joining Girl Scouts, it was only a matter of time before they were forced to allow that kind of nonsense by a ruling of the supreme court. By doing this, most people haven’t noticed that they preserved their language of “natural born” boys only.
Boy scouts decision to let cub scouts (who were never boy scouts, to begin with) enter into a family program is not the tear-down of all boy ventures. Boy Scouts …the actual org for 11-18yo is going to remain all-boy troops.
All they did was insulate themselves from the “boys” with vaginas demanding that they be accommodated. With “girls” with penis’ allowed to joining Girl Scouts, it was only a matter of time before they were forced to allow that kind of nonsense by a ruling of the supreme court. By doing this, most people haven’t noticed that they preserved their language of “natural born” boys only.
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1Lord1Faith
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My head almost exploded while reading that article. What nonsense! The sacristy as some sort of “grooming” area for the priesthood? Give me a break.
I don’t need to say anymore. But Xanthippe_V is right about the BSA.
I don’t need to say anymore. But Xanthippe_V is right about the BSA.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
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And she’s being wholly ignorant of the BSA’s decision.
They have stated, clearly, that BOY scout (not cub scout) dens will remain single gender. And if you read their rules those dens are to remain dens of NATURALLY BORN males, or in the case of female dens NATURALLY BORN females.
This protects the boys from gender-confused children forcing their way in the ranks just like they have in Girl scouts.
Cub scouts, the program for little boys, will have all-girl, all-boy and mixed dens depending on a troop’s decision. These dens are only for children 7-11. And again, if a den makes a gendered decision it’s about naturally born whatever gender. That is an important distinction this day in age.
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FrDavid96
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No, it won’t. That was one of the changes. In a few years, Boy Scout troops will be open to girls–if the chartered organization chooses. As I recall, that will be roughly the time when today’s newest Cub Scouts will be bridging to Boy Scouts.
They did make that change a few months ago (maybe about 1 year). The current policy is now to allow girls-who-claim-to-be-boys join as if they were boys. Again, that’s already current policy.
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JimG
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I wonder if this occurred to her. I wonder how long it will be before SCOTUS declares that some natural born girls are really boys, and some natural born boys are really girls, dependent only on the subject’s declaration of such. If that happens, the BSA decision won’t matter much anyway.
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JimG
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The sanctuary has lately become a zone wherein pretty much anyone may enter. But when I was growing up it was in fact a male only zone, and at that limited to priests and altar boys.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
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Well then I guess it dosn’t matter who joins then. It’s not all-male. Although I think some troops are still natural-born Male only.Xanthippe_Voorhees:
No, it won’t. That was one of the changes. In a few years, Boy Scout troops will be open to girls–if the chartered organization chooses. As I recall, that will be roughly the time when today’s newest Cub Scouts will be bridging to Boy Scouts.
They did make that change a few months ago (maybe about 1 year). The current policy is now to allow girls-who-claim-to-be-boys join as if they were boys. Again, that’s already current policy.
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1Lord1Faith
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Why couldn’t anyone enter. It is essentially a walk in closet for the Mass. I’m sure someone will proceed to tell me how Holy the sacristy actually is, and that, in fact it only “looks” like a storage room.
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FrDavid96
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Sanctuary and sacristy folks.
Two different words. Two different places.
Two different words. Two different places.
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FrDavid96
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In a few years, that will be the case. The new policies are being implemented in stages.
According to the Chartered Organization Concept, the chartered organizations can still define their membership.
According to the Chartered Organization Concept, the chartered organizations can still define their membership.
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JimG
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By the sanctuary, I mean the area in which the altar is located, bounded by the altar rail. In the church where I grew up, the sacristy was behind and also to the side of the altar, a large room containing the vestments and liturgical objects. We entered the sanctuary for Mass from the sacristy back then, priest preceded by altar boys. (Now, at that parish, there is instead an entrance procession from the back of the church.) So it was the altar area which was limited to priests and altar boys.
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1Lord1Faith
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Ah, good catch. The article was referring to the alter area (sanctuary) not the sacristy. My mistake.
I still don’t see the alter area as a bonding area exclusively for priests and boys though. I never felt that way when I was an alter boy. I felt like I was helping with Mass. Females can also help with the Mass…nothing is lost.
I still don’t see the alter area as a bonding area exclusively for priests and boys though. I never felt that way when I was an alter boy. I felt like I was helping with Mass. Females can also help with the Mass…nothing is lost.
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edwest211
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Another irrational move. What is the Boy Scouts? Just add girls? Reject them and look into Catholic alternatives which do exist. The same can be said for the Girl Scouts. Children grow up and learn through stages. They should not be manipulated by people who are not their parents.
Comparing it to a part of a Church building is a wrong comparison.
Comparing it to a part of a Church building is a wrong comparison.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
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1Lord1Faith:
By the sanctuary, I mean the area in which the altar is located, bounded by the altar rail. In the church where I grew up, the sacristy was behind and also to the side of the altar, a large room containing the vestments and liturgical objects. We entered the sanctuary for Mass from the sacristy back then, priest preceded by altar boys. (Now, at that parish, there is instead an entrance procession from the back of the church.) So it was the altar area which was limited to priests and altar boys.
Maybe only during Mass. I know that growing up my gran was a part of the “altar society” of women and little girls who would tidy up the alter, trim the candles, wash the floor (to within an inch of its life) and polish all the things. I’m pretty sure to wax marble–or whatever they did–they had to actually go up on the altar.
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edwest211
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Yes, we also had an ‘altar society’ and I came to Church one day to see these women as they finished doing the necessary cleaning.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
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If anything should be re-established, I think an Altar Society should be. From my Gran’s description, they did a bang-up job and basically scrubbed with toothpicks and tooth brushes every week. Though I do imagine if they did so today it would be quite expensive as she said they’d go through tins and tins of wax and other cleaners.
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JimG
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Yes, you are right about that. The altar society had a job to do and they did it. Even when Mass was not in progress I recall that people would not enter the altar area unless they had a specific job to do, not even the altar servers.
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