Why Jews don't need to be saved

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Valke2 said:
No normative Jew (i.e., your typical jew) would accept Jesus as a prophet or Divine being.
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1 John 2:22
Who is a liar
but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ
he is antichrist
that denieth the Father and the Son

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not
that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh
is not of God
and this is that *spirit *of antichrist

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world
who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh
this is a deceiver and an antichrist
 
jfoges said:
Valke,

you asked why the Mosaic covenant is “imperfect” and why you would need to be baptised into the Catholic Church. The answer is that you need to be baptised to recieve redemption from original sin. We are all born in original sin, even Jews. The Torah cannot eliminate original sin. The Torah’s purpose is to teach people the difference between right and wrong so that people would understand the corrupt nature of humanity and the need for redemption from original sin.

The sacrament of baptism destroys original sin and makes it possible for us to enter heaven. It does not guaruntee salvation though. We still must struggle against the flesh and perservere in righteousness, aided by other sacraments such as eucharist and penance.

After Jesus Christ established the Church many Jews left Judaism and came into the Church. This is still possible today.
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I’ve read the Torah several times and I’ve never understood its purpose as being to help me understand the need for redemption from original sin. Do you believe that a Jew who does not undergo baptism is unable to enter heaven?
 
I once read a book about a jewish girl who became a christian by accepting jesus as her saviour to the hoorror of her parents. so her father decided he would read the entire bible so that he would be able to persuade her to convert back. He ended up not being able to and he himself became a christian followed by his wife. He faced a lot of problems from jewish friends and also lost work because of this. I believe that jews who accept jesus as lord and saviour are called messianic jews.
 
Valke, thank you for your explanation of the Jewish stance on “redemption”.

I am surprised that NONE of those who replied you quoted Biblical Scripture to explain to you why you need to be saved.

Deuteronomy 27:26 “Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out.” Then all the people shall say, "Amen!"

IN the Torah itself, we see this understanding. The Law’s complete abidance is required…failing to uphold = Curse.

Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

God promised the Jews a Messiah…and God promised them an eternal KING. Forever. This king is not an earthly king, like David. But a spiritual king. Indeed God gave the Jews a covenant with Abraham and the covenant is eternal through Abraham’s seed.

**Galatians 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ. **

What is happening now is the Jews do not see a need to accept Jesus because they feel they already have the covenant with them. But this covenant must first be received by faith in God and not purely a continuation of how Jews have always lived. Let’s not forget, prophet Nehemiah & Ezra were sent to bring the Jews back because the Jews offended God’s laws.

Since that situation is possible, then it is also possible that Jews fall out of grace with God, am I right? What God wants is an eternal covenant, one that survives all generations. And it can only come about through the acceptance of Christ who died without sin and is the only human in the entire world that is born without sin, lived without sin and died without sin.

Reason? ‘All who sin will reap death’’ - God’s Law, yet ''He who is without sin also reaped death"! - Jesus was perfect, yet He died and went to Hades to suffer for our sins.

IN other words, ONLY in Jesus can there be life. Without Jesus, there is NO LIFE.

When you pray, pray in the name of Jesus directly to God.
 
Burdock said:
I once read a book about a jewish girl who became a christian by accepting jesus as her saviour to the hoorror of her parents. so her father decided he would read the entire bible so that he would be able to persuade her to convert back. He ended up not being able to and he himself became a christian followed by his wife. He faced a lot of problems from jewish friends and also lost work because of this. I believe that jews who accept jesus as lord and saviour are called messianic jews.
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Yes. They often call themselves messianic Jews. But it is my understanding that many who call themselves messianic jews were never jews to begin with. THat is, they are or were christians who for whatever reason adopted messianic judaism. The biggest messaniac movements such as Jews for Jesus tend to target Jews who have little understanding with their faith, such as the russian jews who came to Israel. Although Jewish, they had been prohibited from practicing their religion in Russia and often knew very little about Judaism. So they were more likely to be receptive to messianic judaism’s message.
 
Salaam/peace
Kaninchen said:
link .
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I had a quick look. few related questions :
…prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets – Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.
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…is there any verse in Bible that says so ?
Saying that God assumes human form makes God small, diminishing both His unity and His divinity
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In Bible , there is a story : a Prophet faught with God & beated him . How do u explain that ?
 
Muslim_Woman said:
Salaam/peace

I had a quick look. few related questions :

…is there any verse in Bible that says so ?

In Bible , there is a story : a Prophet faught with God & beated him . How do u explain that ?
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what bible story would that be? If you are talking about Jacob, it does not say he fought with God.
 
To valke2 .The people i read about were devout jews They were not already christians or luke warm jews.
 
Salaam/peace
Valke2 said:
what bible story would that be? If you are talking about Jacob, it does not say he fought with God.
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I just browsed & found this :

Genesis 32:22-32 (New International Version)

Jacob Wrestles With God

Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, [a] **because you have struggled with God **and with men and have overcome.”

I want to know how jews explain this verse ?

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=GENESIS%2032:22-32
 
Muslim_Woman said:
Salaam/peace

I just browsed & found this :

Genesis 32:22-32 (New International Version)

Jacob Wrestles With God

Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, [a] **because you have struggled with God **and with men and have overcome.”

I want to know how jews explain this verse ?

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=GENESIS%2032:22-32
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Jacob struggles with God his whole life. He steals God’s blessing pretending to be his brother. He runs away from his problem, tries to cheat Laban out of his younger daughter. He struggles, with God, himself, and men. He does not necessarily physically wrestle with God in physical form.
 
Valke2 said:
I’ve read the Torah several times and I’ve never understood its purpose as being to help me understand the need for redemption from original sin. Do you believe that a Jew who does not undergo baptism is unable to enter heaven?
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I believe it is impossible to enter heaven without being baptised. That being said, there are three different forms of baptism. There is the baptism of water, the baptism of desire, and the baptism of blood.

The baptism of water is what you are probably thinking of. It is the pouring of water on a person along with the trinitarian formula.

The baptism of desire is when a person who either is planning to be baptised, or would be baptised IF they knew that baptism was necessary for salvation, is spiritually baptised and cleansed of original sin. It is possible for Jews who do not accept water baptism to be baptised this way, if they are truly good people and would have been baptised if they had complete knowledge and understanding of Catholicism. I have also heard the baptism of desire described as salvation from original sin given to those who live Christ-like lives, but are not Christian.

Baptism by blood is when people are martyred for their faith in Christ before having the chance to be baptised by water.

So the answer to your question is that it is not necessary for Jews to be baptised by water to enter heaven. However, baptism by water is still something that Jews ought to do.
 
I recommend “a Father Who keeps his Promise” and “salvation is from the Jews”. Both are wonderful books. The former will help one get an idea of what God is trying to do for his people, from adam to Jesus. Why Judaism is not the end all be all. It’s beautiful.

The latter will show how special Jews (race) are to God, the Catholic Church, and humanity. Also a beautiful book.

Out of all the theology books I read these are still my favorites, they make me cry sometimes. I think they will help shed some light on topics regarding Jews, Judaism, and the “Big Picture” of salvation.
 
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