Why some catholics are calling Pope Francis the antipope?

[kpschaffert]

If you’ve been on YouTube (i know, not the most reliable source) and witness to other media you’ve probably seen people taking stabs at Pope Francis calling him the antipope. What caught my eye and disheartened me was a catholic organization called vaticancatholic.com on YouTube which reprimands Pope Francis calling him the antipope amidst several allegations they claim make him invalid…such as partaking in a Jewish Ceremony etc. etc. Why would they make such allegations against him or what gives this catholic organization the right to do so and consider him an antipope? We’re all sinners.

 

[SoulSolace]

So much of what Pope Francis has said has been distorted or misconstrued that it is difficult for some to see through the media blitz.
The media props him up as “saintly” and “progressive” and then distort his words to suit a very liberal agenda. It could easily lead some Catholics astray.
As for him being the anti-Pope, would such be even possible as it is The Holy Spirit that ultimately guides the church?

Put it in God’s hands. Truly.
We were promised “the gates of hell will not prevail against it”, yet every division, chism, has been someone proclaiming that the gates of hell did (prevail) in some way or another.

 

[kpschaffert]

Very good points and thank you.

 

[BGorski]

If you’ve been on YouTube (i know, not the most reliable source) and witness to other media you’ve probably seen people taking stabs at Pope Francis calling him the antipope. What caught my eye and disheartened me was a catholic organization called vaticancatholic.com on YouTube which reprimands Pope Francis calling him the antipope amidst several allegations they claim make him invalid…such as partaking in a Jewish Ceremony etc. etc. Why would they make such allegations against him or what gives this catholic organization the right to do so and consider him an antipope? We’re all sinners.

I saw that same website. It is maintained and posted to by Catholics who subscribe to the idea that the Catholic Church has been divided since Vatican II, and that every Pope since then has, to a greater or lesser degree, been counter to what they believe to be the “True Catholic Church.” They are sometimes referred to as ‘Pius XII Catholics.’

Receiving the Eucharist in the hand, conducting a Mass in other than Latin, encouraging any other religious practice (ecumenism) than pre-Vat II Catholicism, and certain traditional things such as women wearing Mantias in Church, etc.

What has been high on their list of anti-Catholic, anti-Pope activities is all activities that take place under the label of ecumenism. The feelings they seem to have about the ecumenical movement is that it diminishes what the Catholic Church stands for - ie praying at the wailing wall as both Benedict XVI and John Paul II did. It’s all a sell-out by our Holy Father(s) and leads all Catholics down the path to perdition.

There is also another group who call themselves ‘American Catholic Church’ who subscribe to beliefs like women priests, pro-choice, etc. They call themselves Catholic and consider themselves loyal to the Papal office, even though they have these beliefs that don’t submit to Papal authority. We used to call them ‘cafeteria Catholics’ - a little of this and a little of that.

I can understand your concerns when you encounter these beliefs under the name of Catholicism. That is a flaw in the Internet. I even once found a website that was set up by a ‘Pope Philip’ in Cleveland who claimed to be the legitimate descendent of the Papal authority from Vatican II. I don’t believe that Pope Phil from Cleveland is out there anymore, either having died or been committed.

Pray always for discernment, and never trust one website or one book to be true. Always look for your own corroborating information or rely on Catholic Answers.

 

[kpschaffert]

I saw that same website. It is maintained and posted to by Catholics who subscribe to the idea that the Catholic Church has been divided since Vatican II, and that every Pope since then has, to a greater or lesser degree, been counter to what they believe to be the “True Catholic Church.” They are sometimes referred to as ‘Pius XII Catholics.’

Receiving the Eucharist in the hand, conducting a Mass in other than Latin, encouraging any other religious practice (ecumenism) than pre-Vat II Catholicism, and certain traditional things such as women wearing Mantias in Church, etc.

What has been high on their list of anti-Catholic, anti-Pope activities is all activities that take place under the label of ecumenism. The feelings they seem to have about the ecumenical movement is that it diminishes what the Catholic Church stands for - ie praying at the wailing wall as both Benedict XVI and John Paul II did. It’s all a sell-out by our Holy Father(s) and leads all Catholics down the path to perdition.

There is also another group who call themselves ‘American Catholic Church’ who subscribe to beliefs like women priests, pro-choice, etc. They call themselves Catholic and consider themselves loyal to the Papal office, even though they have these beliefs that don’t submit to Papal authority. We used to call them ‘cafeteria Catholics’ - a little of this and a little of that.

I can understand your concerns when you encounter these beliefs under the name of Catholicism. That is a flaw in the Internet. I even once found a website that was set up by a ‘Pope Philip’ in Cleveland who claimed to be the legitimate descendent of the Papal authority from Vatican II. I don’t believe that Pope Phil from Cleveland is out there anymore, either having died or been committed.

Pray always for discernment, and never trust one website or one book to be true. Always look for your own corroborating information or rely on Catholic Answers.

Thank you!

 

[christus_vincit]

The vaticancatholic.com people are schismatic Sedevacantists. Best to ignore them.

 

[Coatimundi]

What caught my eye and disheartened me was a catholic organization called vaticancatholic.com on YouTube which reprimands Pope Francis calling him the antipope

That website is run by the Dimond brothers. They are sedevacantists. They believe that every pope during the past 50 years has been an antipope. They believe this because all of those popes have affirmed Vatican II. The Dimond brothers claim to belong to a Benedictine monastery, but it has no affiliation with the Order of Saint Benedict. They are not in communion with Rome, and should not be listened to.

 

[McCartney]

If you’ve been on YouTube (i know, not the most reliable source) and witness to other media you’ve probably seen people taking stabs at Pope Francis calling him the antipope. What caught my eye and disheartened me was a catholic organization called vaticancatholic.com on YouTube which reprimands Pope Francis calling him the antipope amidst several allegations they claim make him invalid…such as partaking in a Jewish Ceremony etc. etc. Why would they make such allegations against him or what gives this catholic organization the right to do so and consider him an antipope? We’re all sinners.

Vatican Catholic is NOT a Catholic organisation. Both the Diamond brothers have been excommunicated.

 

[VanSensei]

Because whoever is translating the Holy Father’s homilies into English should probably be fired, IMHO, So much is being lost in translation that it’s giving everyone the wrong impression.

Vatican Catholic is NOT a Catholic organisation. Both the Diamond brothers have been excommunicated.

VaticanCatholic.com is very much a Catholic organization. I hope you realize that 99.9% of sedevacantists are not bad Catholics or bad people. The Dimond brothers are just a special case - they’re what we’d call dogmatic sedevacantists. That means they think the only valid Catholic doctrine is one where there has been no real pope since before the Second Vatican Council, and that other Catholics - even non-sedes in the SSPV, SSPX or Resistance - are anathema. It’s a strange idea and condemned by basically everyone.

So yes, VaticanCatholic is Catholic. They’re somewhat lost, but they’re still Catholic.

 

[RPRPsych]

That website is run by the Dimond brothers. They are sedevacantists. They believe that every pope during the past 50 years has been an antipope. They believe this because all of those popes have affirmed Vatican II. The Dimond brothers claim to belong to a Benedictine monastery, but it has no affiliation with the Order of Saint Benedict. They are not in communion with Rome, and should not be listened to.

Those brothers were also involved in an alleged money scam some time ago. (The thread is available on these forums if you search around a little.)

And this has nothing to do with Pope Francis - they’ve been Pope-bashing for a long, long while. I can only imagine their final conversation ever.

Super Dimond Bros.: “Lord, Lord, did we not bash every fake Conciliar Pope in Thy Name? Did we not write long screeds in thy name?”
From the Judgement Seat: “I never knew you.”

Like their “liberal” brothers, they are endangering their souls, and are urgently in need of repentance. Lent would be a good time for this.

 

[marywarfield]

I think a pope can’t be a real pope unless someone
somewhere calls them an anti pope or anti Christ.
All the popes in my sixty years has been an anti at
one point or another. So this one is the anti of the anti of the anti of the
anti of the anti.

 

[RPRPsych]

I think a pope can’t be a real pope unless someone
somewhere calls them an anti pope or anti Christ.
All the popes in my sixty years has been an anti at
one point or another. So this one is the anti of the anti of the anti of the
anti of the anti.

 

[McCartney]

VaticanCatholic.com is very much a Catholic organization. I hope you realize that 99.9% of sedevacantists are not bad Catholics or bad people. The Dimond brothers are just a special case - they’re what we’d call dogmatic sedevacantists. That means they think the only valid Catholic doctrine is one where there has been no real pope since before the Second Vatican Council, and that other Catholics - even non-sedes in the SSPV, SSPX or Resistance - are anathema. It’s a strange idea and condemned by basically everyone.

So yes, VaticanCatholic is Catholic. They’re somewhat lost, but they’re still Catholic.

As far as I know the Diamond brothers have been excommunicated. How can one run a Catholic organisation if you are excommunicated? See link below:

lasalettejourney.blogspot.com.au/2010/11/word-of-clarification-regarding-brother.html

 

[RPRPsych]

As far as I know the Diamond brothers have been excommunicated. How can one run a Catholic organisation if you are excommunicated? See link below:

lasalettejourney.blogspot.com.au/2010/11/word-of-clarification-regarding-brother.html

I think what the previous poster (Van Sensei) meant is that even if someone is excommunicated, they don’t “stop becoming Catholic.”

Excommunication is an ecclesiastical penalty - but because the Super Dimond Bros. were presumably baptised at Catholics, they still retain that seal, though they have disrupted that union by their sins. They can easily return to full communion if they repent, retract and confess; they have not become Protestants (or atheists, or Muslims, or animists). They are still, in a sense, “Catholic” because they have not abjured their faith.

Leaving this technicality aside, they certainly can’t run a Catholic organization, because to do so, one has to be in full communion with the Church.

 

[McCartney]

I think what the previous poster (Van Sensei) meant is that even if someone is excommunicated, they don’t “stop becoming Catholic.”

Excommunication is an ecclesiastical penalty - but because the Super Dimond Bros. were presumably baptised at Catholics, they still retain that seal, though they have disrupted that union by their sins. They can easily return to full communion if they repent, retract and confess; they have not become Protestants (or atheists, or Muslims, or animists). They are still, in a sense, “Catholic” because they have not abjured their faith.

Leaving this technicality aside, they certainly can’t run a Catholic organization, because to do so, one has to be in full communion with the Church.

So does that mean that Martin Luther was still a Catholic?

 

[RPRPsych]

So does that mean that Martin Luther was still a Catholic?

No. He formally rejected the Catholic faith and Catholic doctrine (apostasy). Not all sedevacantists have not done this - they have not formally rejected Church teaching, and in some cases, they cling to it quite firmly; they just feel that it stopped in 1958. They would also argue that Vatican II is non-dogmatic, or that it cannot be dogmatic because it teaches error. (Of course, there are extreme sedevacantists who claim that Pius IX, or even Innocent IV, was the first antipope; such people are clearly apostates, because they reject the infallible teaching of subsequent Popes.)

 

[Petaro]

No. He formally rejected the Catholic faith and Catholic doctrine (apostasy). Not all sedevacantists have not done this - they have not formally rejected Church teaching, and in some cases, they cling to it quite firmly; they just feel that it stopped in 1958. They would also argue that Vatican II is non-dogmatic, or that it cannot be dogmatic because it teaches error. (Of course, there are extreme sedevacantists who claim that Pius IX, or even Innocent IV, was the first antipope; such people are clearly apostates, because they reject the infallible teaching of subsequent Popes.)

I must admit that my heart goes out to these people who, if they relied less on intellectual pride and more on Faith in the promise of Christ to His church, they could be some of the best of our creed. These are good people led astray and should be in our most charitable prayers for their repentance and reunion. I am sure Jesus loves them and is presently speeding towards them as He did with the one lost lamb. I also keep Luther in my prayers when his name comes up. If it were not for the position of the German princes he might have recanted, and he did speak out against some of the failings of the church he knew at that time. Again through intellectual pride he fell into apostasy but he and his church are not to be written off in the light of the mercy of our God.

 

[RPRPsych]

I must admit that my heart goes out to these people who, if they relied less on intellectual pride and more on Faith in the promise of Christ to His church, they could be some of the best of our creed. These are good people led astray and should be in our most charitable prayers for their repentance and reunion. I am sure Jesus loves them and is presently speeding towards them as He did with the one lost lamb. I also keep Luther in my prayers when his name comes up. If it were not for the position of the German princes he might have recanted, and he did speak out against some of the failings of the church he knew at that time. Again through intellectual pride he fell into apostasy but he and his church are not to be written off in the light of the mercy of our God.

Agreed on both counts.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

If you’ve been on YouTube (i know, not the most reliable source) and witness to other media you’ve probably seen people taking stabs at Pope Francis calling him the antipope. What caught my eye and disheartened me was a catholic organization called vaticancatholic.com on YouTube which reprimands Pope Francis calling him the antipope amidst several allegations they claim make him invalid…such as partaking in a Jewish Ceremony etc. etc. Why would they make such allegations against him or what gives this catholic organization the right to do so and consider him an antipope? We’re all sinners.

A Catholic is not required to like or love every Pope. But we are required to honor the office and respect the authority of the Pope. I may not like Pope Francis as much as some but to call him an “Anti-pope” is not only ignorant of what the term means but it severs you from he Church. You cannot be Catholic and call him an antipope. He is a valid Pope and the leader of our Church. He was elected correctly and while his methods and ideas have caused some panic on both sides of the spectrum, he has done NOTHING to suggest that he is anything other than the holy leader of our faith, Chosen by God to guide us. I wince at some of the things he has said, I have cheered others. But one thing is for certain. He is not the angel some cheer nor the devil some fear.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I live in a relatively small town and listen to a talk radio station. I have heard commercials before that speak of this website. Unfortunately, those who are not catholic and those catholics who do not know better might not realize this is not a good site to rely on. Because of the name vatican catholic it makes it seem it is approved by the vatican and to me is very misleading.