Why the fascination with death and suffering?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Thepeug
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

Thepeug

Guest
I prayed the Rosary today for the first time, and it was a truly amazing experience! “Hail, Holy Queen” left me with a question, however. Consider the following: “To you do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears.” I understand that the world is full of suffering, and that all creation was tainted with sin after the Fall of Adam and Eve, but I also think that this world is a beautiful and joyous (if tainted) manifestation of God’s love for us.

Why do some Catholics seem to have a preoccupation with suffering and death? I sometimes get the impression that Catholics focus more on the suffering of Christ than on His resurrection. The crucifix, the Flagallents (sp?) of the Middle Ages, corporeal mortification, and Gibson’s *The Passion *are a few examples that come to mind of a focus on pain and suffering. This isn’t to say that Catholics aren’t also focused on the joys of the resurrection and of life in general, and I don’t mean to sterotype anyone. I simply notice a greater focus on suffering among Catholics than I do among Protestant or Orthodox Christians. Any thoughts?

God bless,

Chris
 
My first thought is that when compared to NO emphasis on suffering and death, ANY amount of emphasis is perceived as excessive.

Our culture has the general attitude that suffering has no value whatsoever and is to be feared, avoided and ashamed of.

Protestants in general have a very deficient theology when it comes to the concept of redemptive suffering; the teaching that to be a follower of Jesus one must pick up their cross every day and follow him, and that we all participate in some mysterious but secondary way to Christs’ suffering (Colossians 1:24). To illustrate, I would challenge anyone to find a Protestant book or a sermon that presents suffering as either a character building test, or, among pentecostals, as a lack of faith.
 
I like what Fidelis said. I see that alot in my relationships with friends and family.

Personally, when I encounter these lines in prayer I think of what Paul wrote in Romans 5:3-5: “Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.”

For me at least it turns around this. Not that I am a masocist, please don’t think that, but when I reflect on the sufferings in my life I see my spiritual growth the most.
 
The Hail Holy Queen was written nearly 1,000 years ago by an 11th-century Benedictine monk named Blessed Herman the Cripple. He was a man who was intimately familiar with “mourning and weeping in this valley of tears.”

Blessed Herman was born deformed and physically helpless from birth. Herman was cared for and raised by the monks of the Reichenau abbey of Germany. He was professed as a monk there at age 20. Even though he was bedridden and had a speech impediment which made him nearly impossible to understand, Herman was gifted as a mathematician and astronomer. He made astronomical and musical instruments as well.

Eventually he became blind, but Herman never gave up. He began writing hymns. His “Salve Regina,” or “Hail Holy Queen,” is the best known. Its name comes from the first words in Latin.

Although Herman was so deformed that he was never able to stand, his beautiful prayer stands today as a comfort to many, who perchance are going through trials of their own. Blessed Herman died at the age of 40 in 1054. His beautiful prayer reaches out across the centuries as testamony to the power of suffering. The joy of having a Mother who is so loving as to always hear our prayers and interceed for us with Her Divine Son. “Jesus, our Crucified King, Jesus, Our Risen Lord who shall one day wipe away all of our tears.”
 
40.png
Thepeug:
Why do some Catholics seem to have a preoccupation with suffering and death? I sometimes get the impression that Catholics focus more on the suffering of Christ than on His resurrection.

Chris
Click to expand...
I don’t think it is a preoccupation with suffering and death but rather a reflection of life in this world. Yes there is beauty and many gifts from God to help us get through this world but when you really contemplate your life and the lives of those around you, there is much suffering and death also. Of all the people I have encountered, I do not know of a single person who has lived without some form of suffering. When we contemplate the suffering of Christ, we know he understands what we are going through because he has been there and lives! This world is full of suffering and we humans are always trying to find ways to cover it up in one form or another, such as drinking, drugs, sex, shopping, SPORTS, movies, work and just staying busy. Unless we contemplate suffering, how can we have empathy for others?
 
Not everyone prays the "Hail Holy Queen’ at the end of the Rosary. If I’m not mistaken in some countries they pray other prayers. I’m not sure what they are…I just know in other places they are slightly different.

dream wanderer
 
Many people here are fans of Fr. Benedict Groeschel on EWTN, & he had the best description of Catholic Christianity I ever heard: “We believe in the God who suffered.” If He accepted His sufferings & turned them to glory, why wouldn’t we?
 
I don’t know if this has any bearing on the conversation but as I was reading the other posts I noted that suffering is something our society tries very hard to avoid as is death. Both, however, are an irrefutable part of everyone’s life.

I don’t see us as being preoccupied, just accepting. These are things we all have and will have in common. Our willingness as Catholics to look them in the eye is a great strength in my opinion.
 
Compared to society’s focus, yes.

Compared to the media’s new focus - definitely not.

Compared to life itself, I would say that too many catholics do not think about it enough, particularly if their lives are easy, the Church itself is balanced (though not all parishes) as well as its teachings.

Just my :twocents:
 
Hello, Chris. I appreciate your question.

Let me look at same issue from another viewpoint.
My experience in watching non-Catholic denominations
on television is: What about suffering, loss, failure?
Some days are Easter Sunday, and many more days
in life are Good Friday for many, many people.

What I love about the Catholic Church is you are
allowed to be sad, grieving*.* And the emphasis is
on redemptive suffering. Suffering counts, in union
with Jesus [make up for the sufferings Romans?]

One brief example:
My mother is entering the latter stages of Altzheimer’s.
The “picture” that forms in my mind is not Jesus
triumphant, leaving the tomb in Victory, but, rather,
Jesus hanging on the cross, His life burning out,
while His mother stood by not being able to help Him.

Please note that it is referred to as “Good” Friday,
because of the salvation wrought.

There’s a prayer to Mary that says: “…mourning and
weeping in this vale of tears.”
Catholicism is home for those whose lives have had
more mourning than rejoicing in life, whose lives are,
humanly speaking, “broken.” The Church provides for
the human, emotional element in people. It’s nice to
know I’m saved, but even nicer to know that I don’t
have to walk around with a Christian smile, like
someone from the planet Cute! [that term appeared
in the cartoon Count Duckula. I don’t suffer all the
time!] That would be hard to pull off when I’m walking out of the nursing home.
Best,
reen12
 
40.png
Thepeug:
I prayed the Rosary today for the first time, and it was a truly amazing experience! “Hail, Holy Queen” left me with a question, however. Consider the following: “To you do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears.” I understand that the world is full of suffering, and that all creation was tainted with sin after the Fall of Adam and Eve, but I also think that this world is a beautiful and joyous (if tainted) manifestation of God’s love for us.
Click to expand...
This is most definiately a vale of tears for many, many reasons, the above posts have mentioned some, one that has however not been mentioned is that this is a vale of tears because we are not with our Lord. We are separated from Him because of original sin. We were not made for this world, we were made for the next. We were made to be happy with God in heaven and until we get there we will continue to live in the “vale of tears” where we sorrowfully long to be with Jesus.

I am reminded of the words of a sacred song, that speaks of our longing to be with God.

“Yes Jesus take me to Thyself, I’m weary waiting here, I long to lean apon Thy breast, to see, to feel Thee near.”
 
Thank you all for your thoughtful contributions. I’d thank you individually for the quotes that made particular sense, but there are so many of them! I’m starting to realize that suffering is pain, but it is also beauty and redemption. I’m going to print some of these out as a reminder to myself, as well as to others who are curious about the Catholic emphasis on suffering. Thanks again!

God bless,

Chris
 
This is another prayer that some say after the Rosary

Memorare

Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary,
that never was it known
that any one who fled to thy protection,
implored thy help or sought thy intercession,
was left unaided.
Inspired with this confidence,
I fly unto thee,
O Virgin of virgins my Mother;
to thee do I come,
before thee I stand,
sinful and sorrowful;
O Mother of the Word Incarnate,
despise not my petitions,
but in thy clemency hear and answer me.
Amen.
 
One thing I understand is that we are all different, some people can suffer little in their life and still lead a life where God is a big part of their life, some on the other hand have no need for God.
Myself, knowing the kind of person I am, I pray for suffering, though I’d rather not suffer at all. Through my suffering however, is the time when my heart totally and completely reaches out to our Lord, it is then that I truly feel His love, it is when I am wounded and feel empty inside that He burns within me like an all consuming fire.
There is a lot I don’t understand, but it seems when I am weakest and ready to succumb, He lifts me up and gives me hope and strength.
Now that I think about it, I believe I have failed in pretty much everything I have tried to do in this life of mine, but after the anger and acceptance, it is in our Lord that I find confort, joy and hope.
 
“Fascination with death and suffering”: I would address this by segmenting it somewhat. (The answers already given are very good btw.)

We Catholics are not “fascinated” with death and suffering. It is the viewers of “reality TV” that are fascinated, and such viewers are really unseeing and increasingly unsympathetic.

Our Lord suffered as a perfect sacrifice to atone for the sin of man. All of Creation groans because of our sin. And we will suffer in this life. Suffering is a consequence of our fallen nature. Our Lord accepted it, and as we love Our Lord we accept His sufferings, and unite ours to His.

Death is the consequence of sin, and rather than focus on it overly much Catholicism teaches us clearly what death is, and prepares us for it. A saying in Catholicism: at all times be prepared for confession and for death. If one is not prepared for confession, one is quite possibly hiding some problem from one’s own conscience, rather than admitting it to God. If one is not prepared for death, the same reality may apply. We don’t know when we’ll die, so we should be prepared with a clean conscience at all times.

In addition to “suffering” there is “sorrow”, which is helpful for many reasons. Since the Second Vatican Council Catholics have been encouraged in so many ways to consider their faith a happy-faced one, but sorrow is a key ingredient that, seen properly, is no downer. For example, a good way to begin to really empathize with Our Lord is to concentrate on His Precious Wounds to the point where we feel sorrow for them. At that point one is beginning more deeply to unite to the sacrifice of Our Lord. Sorrow is especially important because sin is a bad thing, indeed the worst thing in the world. To have true sorrow not just for one’s own sins but for those of others is key to spiritual progress and to giving glory to God. A happy-faced religion is unable to compass the reality that sin is the worst evil. But Catholicism, with its true sorrow and contrition, is far from a downer: there is also great joy, as attested by the Saints of the Church.

Death, suffering, sorrow, and joy are all realities that exist in and through the truth of Our Lord and His Church, and as archetypal concepts are ultimately informed by that truth. Death, suffering, sorrow, and joy that are uninformed by Catholic truth are less valuable and can easily distract a person.
 
Hi Chris, Everyone has done a good job of discussing your question but let me put in my 2 cents worth too. During all the “Hoo Ha” about Gibson’s Passion of the Christ I reminded the folks in my congregation [it was Lent of course at the time too] that the bitter suffering and death of Our blessed Lord reminds us of the desperate fallen-ness and the broken state of the world, the depth of sin and the depth of our own need, it shows us how horrible are sin and alienation from our Heavenly Father and above all it shows us how much God loves us. “For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, so that whoever believes in Him might not perish but have everlasting life.” The Gospel in a nutshell. If that were ALL we knew about God, it would be enough. There has to be a Good Friday with its anguish and suffering, its Cross, to lead us to the glory and victory of Easter Day with its open empty Tomb, can’t have one without the other.

“Jesus has redeemed me, a lost and condemned human creature, purchased and won me from sin, death and the power of the devil, not with gold or silver but with His holy, precious Blood and His innocent suffering and dying, so that I might be His own and in His Kingdom live under Him and serve Him in eternal righteousness, innocence and happiness, even as as He, being risen from the dead, lives and reigns to all eternity.”

Greetings one Tarheel to another & blessings + Pastor Roy
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top