Why the push for female deaconesses from some? It is just sexism?

[otjm]

Well, our deacon is an ordinary Minister of Holy Communion; he also has been the official Church witness to some marriages, and he does some baptisms. He also does most of the legwork on petitions for a decree of nullity, and works for the chancery with individuals studying to become a deacon.

As to any push for female deacons (or for deaconesses) that appears to come up in the more progressive end of the progressives; and since I don’t make a point to hang out with those folks, I can’t really say what inspires them.

I would suspect that most in these forums do not have access to that group either, so likely it will be reduced to pure speculation.

As a point, given that deacons or ordained, and thus responsible to the bishop, it may get to the point that a deaond, or several, will take over more of the administrative duties of a parish. that could result in freeing priests up to focus more on the sacramental end of what we consider to be within the confines of"church".

And while the Priest saying Mass can and may read the Gospel, he is still a deacon. Ordination does not make that office disappear or be folded into the ordination to priesthood; so also with the bishop; who, when consecrated, does not lose the status of priest or deacon.

 

[Gorgias]

Outside of those concrete functions that cannot be executed by laymen, just exactly how does a deacon differ from the laity in terms of their vocation to the Church?

They’re ordained. They’ve received the sacrament of holy orders.

To say that this doesn’t make a difference denies the efficacy of Catholic sacraments.

 

[deacon3b]

If you are not a deacon you may always be unsure of them. These graces come at the service of the Church through the ordained deacon who is the sacramental sign of Christ the servant as taught by the Church in Her understanding of diaconal theology. These graces may come in the form of giving strength to the deacon when he arrives at a school to notify a kindergarten teacher that her infant daughter died at the daycare center (yes my experience). Or it may come in the form of what to say to a prisoner who is contemplating suicide (again yes mine). Or in being the only person to visit a dying man with no family. Grace is present in the person of the deacon for those in need. Perhaps one day you will experience the presence of Christ the Servant in a deacon who comes to visit you in a time of need. I’m not sure what your understanding of a deacon is. But I only spend about 4-8 hours a week wearing a dalmatic. The rest of my ministry is spent in the trenches so to speak in the prison, at the homeless shelter, and at the prison. In my every day live as a secular worker I have the ability to represent the church as a cleric with all who I meet and intereract with. I can assure you the “special graces” reserved to the order of deacon manifest themselves in a constant flow in the work performed for Christ.

 

[FrDavid96]

… Does the fact that a deacon is ordained bring added grace to the Church?

YES!!!

With emphasis and enthusiasm, yes!

Deacons bring added graces to the Church beyond mere function. That’s what some of us are attempting to get you to see.

 

[FrDavid96]

I wonder what graces the Church would gain by allowing a female diaconate? Once we discount the concrete functions of the permanent deacon, what would the Church gain by allowing female deaconesses, other than political/social placation of those demanding the Church allow a female permanent diaconate?

Please try to understand why some of us are making an issue of this.

Every time you talk about deacons in this thread, and in a few other threads where you’ve addressed the issue: you have written about the diaconate strictly in terms of utility and function.

If you would just look at the text of yours that I just quoted you present two (and only two) possible ways of looking at a deacon. There is function (eg distributing Communion, presiding at funerals, etc) and then there is political/social motivation (a negative value). Your post leaves no room for any of the other gifts, qualities and yes graces, that a deacon can bring to the people of God.

 

[Duesenberg]

These graces may come in the form of giving strength to the deacon when he arrives at a school to notify a kindergarten teacher that her infant daughter died at the daycare center (yes my experience). Or it may come in the form of what to say to a prisoner who is contemplating suicide (again yes mine). Or in being the only person to visit a dying man with no family.

So a deacon is always going to know/act more effectively in such difficult situations than a layperson (no matter what layperson’s background/experiences might be), because of the grace that effuses from the Church through them due to their ordination? Is that accurate?

Or is it not a matter of what they say or how they act – the grace effuses through them no matter what?

In all sincerity, when a cleric of the Church treats a layperson poorly by any reasonable measure, is that grace still flowing? I’m not trying to ask loaded questions – I’m actually curious and you’re the first one who has ever attempted to explain this phenomenon in this forum.

 

[StephieNorthCo]

Hmmm. Graces given. I might be mistaken in this, but I thought free will also allows one to either accept or not said graces. So is it not more accurate to state that a deacon could act more effectively than an equivalently qualified lay person, due to those graces?

So, no I don’t think God stuffs grace into someone, no matter what.

 

[FrDavid96]

So a deacon is always going to know/act more effectively in such difficult situations than a layperson (no matter what layperson’s background/experiences might be), because of the grace that effuses from the Church through them due to their ordination? Is that accurate?

Or is it not a matter of what they say or how they act – the grace effuses through them no matter what?

In all sincerity, when a cleric of the Church treats a layperson poorly by any reasonable measure, is that grace still flowing? I’m not trying to ask loaded questions – I’m actually curious and you’re the first one who has ever attempted to explain this phenomenon in this forum.

You are attaching unreasonable conditions to your questions to make them unanswerable.

No, one is not “always” going to act more effectively by virtue of ordination. Of course not.

What you are not seeing here is that there are also intangible graces which are imparted at Ordination.

I believe truly that there are times when I am hearing Confessions that the graces imparted through Holy Orders gives me a certain strength or wisdom which I would not otherwise have. An older priest once told us (seminarians) that priests are given the “grace to forget” what is heard in confession, which sometimes but not necessarily always, overcomes the natural human tendency to want to remember the sins of someone else. The same can also happen with preaching. I can tell you right now that there have been times when I thought I had delivered an absolutely terrible and embarrassing homily. I just wanted to crawl back to the rectory and hope that everyone was sleeping through it. Lo and behold someone actually found meaning and inspiration in it. I assure you, it wasn’t me, not that time! It had to be the working of the Holy Spirit for anyone to take anything good away from those disasters. This sort of thing just cannot be measured.

In any case, you’re still missing the point. The value of the diaconate cannot be reduced to mere function–defining the diaconate only in terms of what the deacon can or cannot do liturgically or what he wears. Whether one is advocating for or against women deacons, it’s always missing the point to reduce the diaconate to function.

I suppose it’s a bit like saying that anyone who has a certain income level can be a good parent. Parenting is not just about paying the bills and providing food and clothes. Saying that a deacon is just someone who can preach and bless and give Communion is a bit like saying that a parent is just someone who provides at least a minimum of financial support for a child. The reality is that it is so much more than just that.

 

[deacon3b]

Good point father. As I mentioned in a reply that I wear the dalmatic 4-6 hours each week which is only a fraction of the time spent in diaconal ministry.

 

[Mi_Rose]

As the wife of a deacon I have seen the Holy Spirt inspire my husband to gve wonderful homles. Not that he doesn’t have talent experience and instruction in that but that the words are not always his. He works at the marriage tribunal and visits the homebound and I can tell you that without the grace of ordination he would have quit the trbunal long ago. Some cases just drag him down but the Holy Spirit s there in a way it is not for me or anyone else who is not ordained Do I uderstand it no but it is the grace of ordination that comes from a God we will never understand.

 

[LateranBasilica]

Perhaps one day you will experience the presence of Christ the Servant in a deacon who comes to visit you in a time of need. I’m not sure what your understanding of a deacon is

Such a strong and living image of Jesus. Thankyou Deacon