Why Us

[jemfinch]

I don’t affirm it either though. I believe I brought that question up because someone implied that the Catholic Church cannot make mistakes, therefore it follows that they were doing God’s will.

You may already know this, but be careful to recognize that infallibility (i.e., in teaching on faith and morals) is not the same as impeccability (i.e., “can never make mistakes”).

Yes it did. This is semantics. If a Catholic (who believes as a Protestant) is called anathema it logically follows that Protestants are anathema as well.

Who are you to tell the Catholic Church what “logically follows” from its canons? Neither you nor I have the prerogative to do so; only the Catholic Church can do so.

Apart from that, however, your premise is still faulty. Anathema was a canonical penalty, the strictest form of excommunication. Non-Catholics cannot be excommunicated from a Church to whom they do not belong; ergo, the anathema does not apply to non-Catholic Christians.

Secondly, since anathema is a punishment, it involves a matter not only of morality, but of culpability. It’s objectively morally wrong for you to teach falsehood, but you might be inculpable for that wrongdoing for any number of intervening factors. For this reason, it’s completely false for you to say that you’ve been anathemized by the Catholic Church.

We are under the Church’s jurisdiction…just not the Roman Catholic Church or the Pope. We are under Christ.

Christ said to the Apostles, “He who hears you hears me.” But you’ve rejected the Apostles and their teachings, preserved by the Catholic Church (as well as, by and large, the other apostolic Churches). Submission to Christ doesn’t involve merely speaking the words; it means submitting yourself to the leaders put over you to keep watch over your soul.

According to Catholics I am Catholic. I was baptized in the Catholic Church as an infant;

Ah, then you are Catholic. Didn’t know that

therefore I am anathema.

Anathema as a canonical penalty doesn’t exist anymore. Besides, as discussed above, your culpability is probably less than full, depending on the sort of catechesis you’ve received.

Doesn’t exactly encourage me to “return home” so to speak, ya know what I mean?

It should. It’s very much the sort of thing I would expect from the pillar and foundation of the truth. Like the man who was sleeping with his father’s wife in 1 Corinthians, any penalty levied against you is to convince you to return to Christ and His Church.

Of course it was a point. Whether you could say the same thing is irrelevant. I believe our separation (as far as maintaining doctrinal purity) is good.

Historically, the separation of Protestants from the Church has greatly harmed any semblance of doctrinal purity. Take a look at what the original reformers (radical or otherwise) believed, and compare that to the what the churches they’ve founded believe today. It’s not the same, and that’s because the formal principle of the reformation, Sola Scriptura, natural leads to doctrinal impurity, by removing the possibility of comparing interpretations of Scripture against the constant Tradition of the Church.

The only thing left to decide is which side is right.

When [link=[URL]http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/Why_Be_Catholic.htm]75%[/URL] of Christians agree on 95% of theology[/link], (far more than 75% if we count all Christians throughout history) and the remaining 25% are hopelessly divided amongst themselves, you can be almost certain that the Truth isn’t in that 25%.

Jeremy

 

[Randy_Carson]

I’d also like you to list off all 40,000 (or so) Protestant denominations. Until one person does this, this accusation needs to cease. So come on…go for it.

Hoosier-

This forum prohibits posts of more than 5,000 characters, and I’m not in the mood to cut and paste into multiple posts.

However, you can see the following list at Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

The accompanying article reads in part:

Some denominations are large (e.g. Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans or Baptists) while others are just a few small churches, and in most cases the relative size is not evident in this list. Also, modern movements such as Fundamentalist Christianity, Pietism, Evangelicalism, Pentecostalism and the Holiness movement sometimes cross denominational lines, or in some cases create new denominations out of two or more continuing groups (as is the case for many United and uniting churches, for example). Such subtleties and complexities are not clearly depicted here. Additionally, some groups viewed by non-adherents as denominational actively resist being called a “denomination” and do not have any formal denominational structure, authority, or record-keeping beyond the local congregation; several groups within Restorationism fall into this category.

This is not a complete list, but aims to provide a comprehensible overview of the diversity that exists among denominations of Christianity. Some links may point to non-existent articles. There are approximately 300 branches listed here.

I don’t have to tell you, I think, that most of these “branches” are Protestant.

 

[Randy_Carson]

And though the majority of you don’t believe that we are not Christians, some Catholics do believe this.

And while some Protestants believe that Catholics are Christians, the majority do not. At least, not here in the deep south.

Therein lies the difference.

 

[beckers]

I’m an ex-evangelical Protestant who came into the Catholic Church in 2004.

When I read your question, my first thought was rather a dramatic one which some might say demonstrates an over-active imagination.

I think that Satan puts a lot of energy into getting people to attack the Catholic Church because he knows it is the True Church, the Church of Jesus Christ. No wonder Satan wants to bust it up!

He has all kinds of clever strategies–spreading false information about the Catholic Church, getting Catholics to doubt the teachings of their Church so that they quit and become zealous ex-Catholics, tempting priests to give in to their sexual weaknesses and commit sins against the innocent, getting Protestants to believe false things about the Church, etc.

So is my idea too silly?

Not Silly at all. My gut answer was going to be Satan. To me the perscution on the Church is one more proof of why the church is the bride of christ. If the church wasn’t who she claimed to be then why would she be attacked so much? Satan and his Demon’s always reconigzed Jesus so it makes since to me that Satan would also reconigze Jesus’s bride. Remember satan wants to being the downfall of GOD but he never will!

 

[ncgolf]

A good book relating to the subject is C.S. Lewis’s “The Screwtape Letters”. In his own style Lewis, from the point of view of a minion of Satan, shows how they attack the weaknesses of humans.

Well worth your time.

 

[Nicene]

Yes it did. This is semantics. If a Catholic (who believes as a Protestant) is called anathema it logically follows that Protestants are anathema as well. We are under the Church’s jurisdiction…just not the Roman Catholic Church or the Pope. We are under Christ. According to Catholics I am Catholic. I was baptized in the Catholic Church as an infant; therefore I am anathema. Doesn’t exactly encourage me to “return home” so to speak, ya know what I mean?

You do realize that anathema is a greek term that comes right out of the bible right? Possibly you should question Paul as to why he did it? You’ll find it in Galatians, Corinthians and Acts.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Cat]

Interesting that Screwtape Letters should be brought up.

I was thinking earlier in the week that it would be interesting to write up an essay where Screwtape is teaching Wormwood how to destroy the Catholic Church. (Although if you read the book, a lot of that stuff is already in there.)

One of the greatest books ever written for Christians, Catholic and non-Catholic. If you haven’t read it, read it.

 

[colliric]

Interesting that Screwtape Letters should be brought up.

I was thinking earlier in the week that it would be interesting to write up an essay where Screwtape is teaching Wormwood how to destroy the Catholic Church. (Although if you read the book, a lot of that stuff is already in there.)

One of the greatest books ever written for Christians, Catholic and non-Catholic. If you haven’t read it, read it.

I would like to read more Lewis, I read all 7 Narnia books last year in a row. What a journey that was! I can’t wait to see how Waldon Media deals with the other 6 books in the series.

 

[jemfinch]

You do realize that anathema is a greek term that comes right out of the bible right? Possibly you should question Paul as to why he did it? You’ll find it in Galatians, Corinthians and Acts.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

But still, please note that the word “Anathema” as used by the Council of Trent has a very different meaning than the same word as used by Paul. A much more refined meaning, being an ecclesiastical penalty.

Jeremy

 

[hasikelee]

I am coming back to the church after many years. Im my studies though I have found there are many groups out there who do not like us. There are theories out there that the Pope is the antichrist and the like. I was wondering why? One never hears this kind of stuff from say the Lutherins. So why are we the Target. I hope some one can help.

It points to the importance of it.

How many different names can you think of that describe your elbow?

Okay, now how many names can you think of that describe a sexual organ?

Mhm.

In every age there is a majority of people who try through lying, murder, government control, slavery, discrimination and more to beat out Catholicism. And they never win.

On a simpler note, I think there is a widespread dislike of Catholicism because you have a certain (large) percentage of the population that doesn’t have a clue how to think. For example, they vote based on smear ads on the tv, or they are “personally opposed, but still prochoice.”

Most people don’t hate Catholicism; they hate what they’ve been made to think Catholicism is.

 

[lak611]

A good book relating to the subject is C.S. Lewis’s “The Screwtape Letters”. In his own style Lewis, from the point of view of a minion of Satan, shows how they attack the weaknesses of humans.

Well worth your time.

I love C.S. Lewis. I read The Screwtape Letters** back when I was in high school for a book report for my theology class. I should read it again, since it has been about 20 years now.