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japhy
Guest
I think the type of things the OP is asking about can be explicated in a sermon without the sermon becoming a “lecture”.
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zab
Guest
Our pastor sometimes gives a brief introduction to the Mass. Sometimes he reads a brief bio of a saint at daily Mass, but it is not like he is giving a 3 or 4 minute homily.
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stitchesbyjulie
Guest
Well, actually I beg to differ. I have gained a wealth of knowledge from many lessons that are 10 min. in length or less from many knowledgeable Catholics and Apologists. I wasn’t asking for a full disclosure of the unabridged contents of the Catechism of The Catholic Church in a single abbreviated 10 min. homily. It would be very reasonable to pick one subject or doctrine of the Church, and expand upon it’s roots with whatever time is available during the homily. The classes you referenced are great resources for people who are seeking a fuller understanding of our faith which is unfortunately a minority group of the people that show up for the hour each Sunday. People don’t KNOW, what they don’t know. It’s why a lot of people leave the church. History has shown that it’s not realistic to assume that a disenchanted Catholic would first seek a formal catechetical education before deciding to attend the “rock concert” at the nondenominational church down the road. Maybe if they understood the deep roots and history of our faith spoon fed to them in 10 min. weekly installments, they would have no reason to seek answers elsewhere.
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michaelgazin
Guest
[Edited] It’s this mentality that needs to be done away with. There are many issues with what you wrote, but the most important issue is that you are thoroughly wrong. The Church has never taught that mass has this exclusivity you are [edited] ranting about. The liturgy of the mass is the procession and culmination of many aspects of the Christian life - prayer, worship, and communion, as well as instruction and explanation. As the poster who immediately responded after your mind-numbing barrage of baseless rules and regulations, the very Church you claim to be representing has resoundingly dismantled your exhortations, and She did so in the 16th century at the Council of Trent. How about going back a little further? Origen, one of the Church Fathers, also seems to disagree with you, and he did so 1,800 years ago.
From NewAdvent.org on the Homily:
“It is the oldest form of preaching…It was the kind of preaching that was used by the Apostles and Fathers in addressing the faithful…In the “First Apology” of Justin Martyr (c. lxvii) we read: “On the day called Sunday, all assembled in the same place, where the memorials apomnemoneumata] of the Apostles and Prophets were read . . . and when the reader has finished, the bishop delivers a sermon”, etc. In this connexion, the “Encyclopaedia Britannica” (ninth edition) says: “The custom of delivering expositions or comments more or less extemporaneous on the lessons of the day at all events passed over soon and readily into the Christian Church” *.”
“Origen has been called the father of the homily; it was he who contributed most to popularize this species of literature in which are to be found so many instructive details on the customs of the primitive Church, its institutions, discipline, liturgy, and sacraments.”
“Since Origen’s time homily has meant, and still means, a commentary, without formal introduction, division, or conclusion, on some part of Sacred Scripture, the aim being to explain the literal, and evolve the spiritual, meaning of the Sacred Text.”
Maybe do a little research before trying to pass off your [edited] words as fact.*
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PJM
Guest
***Your question is good and valid, If you’d care to complie a list of “Why do we do this” questions, it would be of interest and aid to many on this Formum.
Love and prayers***
Pat
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Leonius
Guest
It seems you do not understand what I mean by the word worship. Explaining Gods Word is a form of worship.
Even your own source says “the aim being to explain the literal, and evolve the spiritual, meaning of the Sacred Text.”, not to explain any random thing the priest decides he wants to talk about even if it is somethign to do with the Catholic Faith.
Which is also in line with the GRIM which says the homily "should be an exposition of some aspect of the readings from sacred Scripture or of another text from the Ordinary or from the Proper of the Mass of the day."
ie. it should be relevant to the mass taking place that day. Don’t you think that makes sense?
Which excludes things like why we ring the bells at mass don’t you think? Unless obviously the sacred readings that day where about bells been rung I suppose.
We have to remember the Priest in his homily is addressing the whole congregation as such it is not fruitful for him to teach things which will only benefit a few individuals even if one of those individuals is ourselves.
I would appreciate it if you speak to me with some modicum of charity in the future, you are supposed to be a Catholic after all, try and conduct yourself as one.
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ac_claire
Guest
No the Magisterium doesn’t in any way contradict what Leonius and Japhy are saying. (They are in agreement as far as I can tell, just coming from different perspectives on the question.)
The sermon/homily can be instructive but it’s not edifying for a sermon to explain some bit of trivia about the history of different rubrics and practices of the Mass. First of all, most of the people there already know these things. I don’t say that to be insulting to those who don’t…just stating a fact. The kind of instruction you’re looking for is found in CCD or Catechism classes, or there are many good resources online. Here are two you can start with:
Explaining the Catholic Mass
The Explanatory Mass
At the Maronite church I attend occasionally they have little brochures in the narthex that expain all the different parts of the Mass, going through the actions of the priest, the correct responses of the laity and the reasons/history behind them. These brochures are very helpful.
Also at my home parish, St. Mary’s Cathedral in Austin, they used to have a little section of the bulletin that explained various things about the Mass. Every week there’d be a new lesson about the bells, or the liturgical seasons, or the history of the crucifix or the meanings of the different vestaments, etc., etc. This, too, was helpful.
In short, I understand your point…The homily can be instructive but it’s not meant to be a CCD lesson.
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japhy
Guest
That is not the exclusive definition/purpose of a homily or sermon. There is much more to it.
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Leonius
Guest
It still says “The homily should be relevant to the liturgical celebration of the day or season. (Cf. GIRM, n. 65)”
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japhy
Guest
That one line from the GIRM is not the end-all and be-all of the Church’s definition of the homily. Even if it was, unless there were no ringing of the Sanctus bells on that day, discussing the liturgical and spiritual meaning of the Sanctus bells would fit that description, since it would be relevant to that day’s liturgical celebration.
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EasterJoy
Guest
Where did Catholic adults get the idea that their duty to inform their consciences and educate themselves in the faith stopped on the day their parents quit paying tuition to a Catholic school, with only Mass on Sunday to fill the remaining chasm?
There is no way that any priest is going to fit the depth and breadth of teaching that the average adult Catholic needs into the space of a weekly homily, and I’m not counting the ones who started out in poverty concerning what should have been given to them in the past, but wasn’t.
If you didn’t have the minimum of the equivalent of the Baltimore Catechism under your belt by the time you turned 18–and yes, I mean an eighth grade education by the time you were finished with 12th grade, unfortunately-- then you are well into the legions of the shortchanged. Ideally, you would have that plus some beginning idea of adult Bible scholarship, some introduction to Church history, some broad idea of canon law, particularly with regards to marriage.
That, however, is only the start of a lifetime of learning. Even that cannot possibly be maintained on the few minutes a week that can be spared from the necessary reflections and explanations specific to the readings of the day. Even the excellent adult education and remedial articles that are inserted into bulletins aren’t enough.
The homily and the bulletin, by all rights, ought to make you hungry enough and aware enough of what you don’t have to spur you to do your part for the rest of your needs. If you put your entire education on what a priest and bulletin can give you on Sundays, you are on an educational starvation diet. That is not the kind of fasting that one wants to pursue.
There is no way that any priest is going to fit the depth and breadth of teaching that the average adult Catholic needs into the space of a weekly homily, and I’m not counting the ones who started out in poverty concerning what should have been given to them in the past, but wasn’t.
If you didn’t have the minimum of the equivalent of the Baltimore Catechism under your belt by the time you turned 18–and yes, I mean an eighth grade education by the time you were finished with 12th grade, unfortunately-- then you are well into the legions of the shortchanged. Ideally, you would have that plus some beginning idea of adult Bible scholarship, some introduction to Church history, some broad idea of canon law, particularly with regards to marriage.
That, however, is only the start of a lifetime of learning. Even that cannot possibly be maintained on the few minutes a week that can be spared from the necessary reflections and explanations specific to the readings of the day. Even the excellent adult education and remedial articles that are inserted into bulletins aren’t enough.
The homily and the bulletin, by all rights, ought to make you hungry enough and aware enough of what you don’t have to spur you to do your part for the rest of your needs. If you put your entire education on what a priest and bulletin can give you on Sundays, you are on an educational starvation diet. That is not the kind of fasting that one wants to pursue.
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PJM
Guest
***WWJD?
First He lived the Gospel Message.
Second He taught all that was necessary for the salvation of souls! When is the last time you heard a sermon on Contrception, abortion, living togeater outside of marriage, the absolute need for Confession, how we can know Jesus is really present in the Eucharist, the whys and hows of Papal Authority? Ect…***
***From a pragmatic standpoint, poles show that less than 25% of professed Catholics attend mass regulary and only 10% go to Confession! What we belief, how we are to practice our faith, what we are Morally obligated to do and believe [52% of catholics vote pro-death as a personal option] are urgently needed.
Instead too often “fear of offending” rules the day, and we gotta leave church feeling good about ourselves.
WWJD?*** Answer and do it!
First He lived the Gospel Message.
Second He taught all that was necessary for the salvation of souls! When is the last time you heard a sermon on Contrception, abortion, living togeater outside of marriage, the absolute need for Confession, how we can know Jesus is really present in the Eucharist, the whys and hows of Papal Authority? Ect…***
***From a pragmatic standpoint, poles show that less than 25% of professed Catholics attend mass regulary and only 10% go to Confession! What we belief, how we are to practice our faith, what we are Morally obligated to do and believe [52% of catholics vote pro-death as a personal option] are urgently needed.
Instead too often “fear of offending” rules the day, and we gotta leave church feeling good about ourselves.
WWJD?*** Answer and do it!
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EasterJoy
Guest
I don’t think there are any priests who refrain from teaching what the gestures in the Mass mean because they’re afraid they’ll offend somebody, or that they’ll make someone feel bad.
We heard about all the different places we use the Sign of the Cross, including the gesture made by the deacon before reading the Gospel, on Trinity Sunday. There are natural places that these little explanations are going to come up, and it’s a good thing to include them. I actually think that the expectation that one might come home with some increase in understanding like that will increase attentiveness to homilies, because that stuff is fun to learn and knowing increases our appreciation of our religious practice. It is a gift that keeps on giving, don’t get me wrong.
I would highly recommend, though, that no one let their entire education about this kind of thing rest on passing tidbits that they hear in homilies or read about in the bulletin. Let those stimulate the appetite, not be the whole meal.
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stitchesbyjulie
Guest
It seems people have missed the meaning in this simple request that I posted. There is no need to attack people because they may or may not not know something. You don’t know where they came from or why they may not know these things or what they’ve been through. From my perspective, we went to Catholic school for the first 8 yrs. not because we could afford it, but because it was so important to my parents that their children go to a Catholic school. The Parish of St. Therese helped my parents get 9 kids through at least 8th grade. We went to mass M-F and Sundays. My dad got up and went to 5 am mass before going to work everyday. WE love and cherish our Catholic faith. When my dad was diagnosed with Lou Gehrig’s Disease, I was 9 yrs. old, right in the middle of the pack and my responsibilities increased 100fold. Although they gave him 2 yrs. to live, he lived for 8yrs. because of the care he received at home from my dear mother, myself and my younger brother. I have countless books on the Catholic Faith now, and cd’s that I listen to and have attended classes. I will be learning until the day I die, about God, life and people, as I hope you all will.
My simple question was to let people know the ‘why’ of some of the things we do to, not only help them to learn a few things, but to get a better understanding and maybe even develop a ‘yearning’ for more knowledge. It doesn’t make a person better than someone else because he or she may know more. If I didn’t know these things when I was young, and yet I attended mass daily, maybe a gentle reminder as adults would be helpful and not only to me but for many other people out there who find themselves in the same boat. Sometimes I’ve found the books can be very heavy, overbearing and too technical and it might be hard for people to get through them. I was only asking for a few simple explanations to some of the things we do, and after that, the “serious & in depth” issues of course would be something left for the classroom.
Jesus saw the heavy burden the Jewish elders and leaders were putting on His people, so He simplified things, 2 commandments instead of over 600 rules. If they asked Him a question, He usually answered with a parable. So I ask you, do you think if He told my story as a parable, would He agree with the people who only stick to the ‘rules’, or would he say “bring the children to me” and would He want to “Feed the Thousands”. And do you think that He would look at my ‘body of work (my life)’ and say “well done my good and faithful servant” or judge me because I didn’t know something.
I’m also a Breast Cancer Survivor, so if anyone would like to talk to me about that, I would be happy to help in any way I can.
I’m out, I’ve said what I want to say and you all can go where you want with this.
My simple question was to let people know the ‘why’ of some of the things we do to, not only help them to learn a few things, but to get a better understanding and maybe even develop a ‘yearning’ for more knowledge. It doesn’t make a person better than someone else because he or she may know more. If I didn’t know these things when I was young, and yet I attended mass daily, maybe a gentle reminder as adults would be helpful and not only to me but for many other people out there who find themselves in the same boat. Sometimes I’ve found the books can be very heavy, overbearing and too technical and it might be hard for people to get through them. I was only asking for a few simple explanations to some of the things we do, and after that, the “serious & in depth” issues of course would be something left for the classroom.
Jesus saw the heavy burden the Jewish elders and leaders were putting on His people, so He simplified things, 2 commandments instead of over 600 rules. If they asked Him a question, He usually answered with a parable. So I ask you, do you think if He told my story as a parable, would He agree with the people who only stick to the ‘rules’, or would he say “bring the children to me” and would He want to “Feed the Thousands”. And do you think that He would look at my ‘body of work (my life)’ and say “well done my good and faithful servant” or judge me because I didn’t know something.
I’m also a Breast Cancer Survivor, so if anyone would like to talk to me about that, I would be happy to help in any way I can.
I’m out, I’ve said what I want to say and you all can go where you want with this.
E
EasterJoy
Guest
This was the red flag statement: “They might teach a class but many, many people never have time or just won’t attend a class. What better time than to teach a “lesson” with the captive audience of mass-goers.”
Of course it is great to give these kind of lessons in homilies, but homilies are not and cannot be enough for all there is to learn, even if you got the absolute best Catholic education available through Grade 12…or 16…or seminary, even. The truth is, sadly, that many Catholics, through no fault of their own, were shortchanged in their early education. They have a lot of ground to make up. Homilies alone really won’t cut it for them.
Nobody can judge you, but the attitude that Catholics can’t be expected to get more education than what they’ll find in the homily or bulletin on Sundays is one that bears scrutiny. Don’t have time? Why not? Yes, there are tag-team parents who can barely spare ten minutes a day for reading about their faith. There are a lot more people who spend 15 hours a week parked in front of a TV, and yet don’t spend ten extra minutes on their faith outside Mass and the bulletin over the course of a year! (Actually, the average American watches five hours of TV a day!) Yet they claim they don’t have time to learn more about the faith.
The simple will not be judged. The indolent are another matter. I’m not putting you into that group–I love it when priests put those little tidbits into homilies, myself–but let’s not let those who have the ability but can’t be bothered to extend themselves on their own behalf off the hook. That would be doing them a disservice.
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Halos1n2Horns
Guest
Sitch,
I would suggest having your Priest or deacon, ( which ever one does the pastors corner in your bullentin.) maybe ask them to get back to the basic of the Bible , or doctrine of the church. Maybe a good way to spread what you would like to know as to Why we do what we do.
Our church doesn’t have a Priest at the moment,. so our deacon does our pastor corner, and puts in things like why we genuflect, the bullentins as to how u don’t read them in mass, depending on what comes to his mind but hes really good. Also puts in how were suppose to be quiet in church where entering or leavin for respect of Christ and people who want to pray. His teaching us in the pastor corner, he is really good.
Our last priest did the same thing. And note, some Priest do teach during there homily , Most of the time its what the holy spirit has intended for them to say, If a homily is on God’s love, the ten commandments etc. Its also a teaching, the homily is so we catholics can learn what we need to do in our lifes to rid of sin or maybe to add to our prayer life or how to read the bible more, its the priest job to direct our souls for a better deciple for Christ, and show us how to have more mercy and recieve more grace through our lord. So its not always just a preaching.
This is my opinion i am a 12 year old catholic and proud to be a catholic. And why i love the Priest and all his faithful for helping me thru prayer and homilies to be the best i can in a good deciple for Christ.
Make me a channel of your peace ~~~ St Francis of Assisi
Halos
I would suggest having your Priest or deacon, ( which ever one does the pastors corner in your bullentin.) maybe ask them to get back to the basic of the Bible , or doctrine of the church. Maybe a good way to spread what you would like to know as to Why we do what we do.
Our church doesn’t have a Priest at the moment,. so our deacon does our pastor corner, and puts in things like why we genuflect, the bullentins as to how u don’t read them in mass, depending on what comes to his mind but hes really good. Also puts in how were suppose to be quiet in church where entering or leavin for respect of Christ and people who want to pray. His teaching us in the pastor corner, he is really good.
Our last priest did the same thing. And note, some Priest do teach during there homily , Most of the time its what the holy spirit has intended for them to say, If a homily is on God’s love, the ten commandments etc. Its also a teaching, the homily is so we catholics can learn what we need to do in our lifes to rid of sin or maybe to add to our prayer life or how to read the bible more, its the priest job to direct our souls for a better deciple for Christ, and show us how to have more mercy and recieve more grace through our lord. So its not always just a preaching.
This is my opinion i am a 12 year old catholic and proud to be a catholic. And why i love the Priest and all his faithful for helping me thru prayer and homilies to be the best i can in a good deciple for Christ.
Make me a channel of your peace ~~~ St Francis of Assisi
Halos
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Joannm
Guest
I write a similar column in our weekly bulletin. It is called "Did you know…? Sometimes people will call in questions but most of the time I write something on a topic that I think needs some catechesis. Two weeks ago when the latest encyclical came out, the question was “What is an encyclical?” People have told me that they find it helpful. Over the last two weeks I have been expanding on that question by asking about Apostolic constitiutions and apostolic letters. It is interesting the hierarchy of curial and papal proclamations and most people do not know about such things.
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EasterJoy
Guest
I think these are an excellent idea. Not only is the topic choice unrestricted by the readings of the week, but the material is very often easier to absorb when presented in print. Most of us don’t have the habit of 200 years ago, when people were trained to retain more of what they heard and speakers were more aware of how to deliver an oral presentation so it would be memorable in detail.
It isn’t enough to constitute all that we should be learning, but it is a great improvement on what can be given in homilies alone. Besides, it lets us know what it is that we don’t know, and often that is the main step in one’s education that is lacking!
Another good idea I know of is to screen and post particularly good links on the parish web site. There are a sizable number that won’t be reached that way, it shouldn’t be used to the neglect of more direct means of the type you provide, but it is one more thing that helps.
Our parish also has a rack with pamphlets and audio CDs with this kind of information. The CDs can be purchased for a small amount and donations are encouraged to support the effort, but people are encouraged to borrow and return, if they can’t afford to buy. The main intention is that the information get out.
When the topic of adult education comes up in homilies, these resources are pointed out, too. As the OP pointed out, people often want to know these things, but either don’t know where to look or don’t think they have the time. A homily is a good place to correct that impression, if nothing else.
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cdanison
Guest
One of the best places to get any information you want on how or why the church does certain things is to join in RCIA. You can use the excuse “to sponsor a person entering the church”, but you also can ask any questions you want. I am a convert, and I went back to RCIA twice to sponsor someone. I learned so much and it, being a casual atmosphere, is much easier to ask the questions you want answers for. 
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