Why were the crusades unsuccsesful?

[Gricken]

Please note I am not denying horrible things happened during the Crusades or because of the Crusades. I simply do not believe these things were goals of the Crusades, which is after all the subject of this thread.

Fair enough

 

[mikeeh]

christendom knew how to fight wars. it had been fighting wars since imperial times, it rarely wasn’t fighting a war somewhere, usually against itself. christendom was a warrior culture. but so was islam, and the christians got whipped.

I didn’t say Christendom didn’t know how to fight wars. I said they learned how to fight wars in foreign lands, particularly in the middle east which is a very hostile environment. The Islamic armies were far more tactically advanced and they had the advantage of fighting in their homeland. The crusades taught Christian military leaders how to fight an enemy away from home in a foreign land. Prior to the crusades, most wars fought by the Christians were in Europe. The crusades took the soldiers out of their comfort zone.

which ones were those? nobody in Europe was initially immune to the bubonic plague pandemic in the 14th century (lasting until the 17th), just like they weren’t immune to the first plague pandemic in the 6th century, both of which devastated islamic and Christian lands. all of Eurasia is basically the same disease pool. (the crusades took place between those two pandemics) “exposed” means “causes devastating epidemic and death of 30-50% of the population from the initial exposure”, so if you think this is a benefit, then nice going, crusaders. don’t do anymore favors.

I was referring to more common diseases. When people travel they come in more contact with different diseases. It was more of a conditioning. They learned how to survive away from the comforts of home. However, all of Eurasia is not the same disease pool.

post hoc reasoning. the crusades were destructive and ultimately losing propositions. western powers would have found sea trade routes regardless of the crusades.

They would have eventually but the Muslims blocking land routes sped the process up. If Europe would have waited any longer China would have colonized the Americans or even the Muslims. It’s not a post hoc since we’re talking about history it’s an analytic argument. History is not 100% recorded nor is it exempt from theory.