Why will this not work for you

[Bill_Pick]

History shows that no civilization, country, city, or organization, has lasted for very long if there were no effective government for the people to follow, trust, and believe in. Some office is needed to interpret, enforce, and follow the laws.

1. The Romans had Caesar and the Senate. 
2. The United States has a President, Congress, and the Supreme Court.
3. A state has a Governor and a Legislature.
4. A corporation has a CEO and Board of Directors.
5. The Catholic Church has the Pope, Bishops, and the Magisterium.. These governments make the rules for all to follow. They also have the responsibility to protect and enforce them,

in an orderly and timely manner. Without order there is chaos. . What would happen in our country if every person did what HE thought was right and ignored the rights of others, and each had HIS own set of rules or laws to follow, or no rules at all? Civilization as we know it would collapse.
. Do you realize there are some Christian sects that operate this way? Each person is told to interpret the Bible, the Word of GOD, for himself. Whatever feels right for him is all that matters. It is every man for himself essentially. This policy breeds chaos, infighting, and disunity. Remember what Jesus Christ said, “Every house divided against itself cannot stand.” Mt 12:25
. The Bible is not a novel. It is the Word of GOD. If you read it like you would read a novel, you would not
gain much from it except mass confusion. If you gave a million people each a Bible, and asked each to interpret
it, you would get a million different interpretations. Which one would you believe? Which one has the truth? As we have seen, ‘Truth is One’. Which person’s interpretation is that truthful ONE?
. Would you want to believe the interpretation of one man, whose credentials might be questionable, or of the collective interpretation of a group of men with impeccable credentials AND The Holy Spirit?
The Catholic Church has the Pope and the Magisterium to interpret, preserve, and protect ‘The Deposit of Faith’
for all of us.
. The Magisterium consists of the Pope, and the Cardinals and Bishops acting with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
. They meet in councils, and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, make decisions on important matters
regarding the faith.
. Where there is no governor, the people shall fall, but there is safety where there is much counsel: Prov 11:14,24:6
. Designs are strengthened by counsels: Prov 20:18
. The only way we can know ONE truth is to accept ONE authority.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Very well said Bill. So simple, yet so hard for many, if not most, to accept.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Very well said Bill. So simple, yet so hard for many, if not most, to accept.

Thank You

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

IDK Bill, countries fall and corporations go bankrupt despite any type over seeing. Now obviously the Church cannot fail, but I am not sure that using secular entities to prove the Church’s premise is of any value. I could be wrong

I, myself, prefer a smaller and more limited Government. One that does not tell me what schools my children have to go to, and what they must be taught. Chesterton had a quote along the lines that Government didn’t have as much control and power when it could send people to the stake, as it does now when it sends people to elementary school.

Just my :twocents:

God bless

 

[Richard_Kastner]

History shows that no civilization, country, city, or organization, has lasted for very long if there were no effective government for the people to follow, trust, and believe in. Some office is needed to interpret, enforce, and follow the laws.

What are some examples of “civilization, country, city, or organization” that failed because they had no effective government? Just curious.

1. The Romans had Caesar and the Senate. 
2. The United States has a President, Congress, and the Supreme Court.
3. A state has a Governor and a Legislature.
4. A corporation has a CEO and Board of Directors.
5. The Catholic Church has the Pope, Bishops, and the Magisterium.. These governments make the rules for all to follow. They also have the responsibility to protect and enforce them in an orderly and timely manner.

While it is the function of the governments of countries states and corporations to make and enforce laws. It’s a totally different thing with the church. The head of God’s church, is God. He makes the rules, laws for us to either follow or not. It’s called free will. There is no enforcement by man, because it wouldn’t be free then would it?

Do you realize there are some Christian sects that operate this way? Each person is told to interpret the Bible, the Word of GOD, for himself.

I,m not sure “interpret” is the right word here, but we are taught by the bible itself to check out what we are being taught against what the bible says. 10And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
I’m sure you will agree that Paul and Silas had the true gospel of Jesus Christ and Him crucified, but the Bereans searched the scriptures daily to find out if these things be so.

Whatever feels right for him is all that matters. It is every man for himself essentially. This policy breeds chaos, infighting, and disunity. Remember what Jesus Christ said, “Every house divided against itself cannot stand.” Mt 12:25

First of all feelings have nothing to do with it. Second, it’s not every man for himself. When you read the bible you must be open to the Spirit of God or you will get it wrong. The bible has an incredible unity and clarity, but this clarity may not be apparent to the casual reader becase they are not open to the Spirit. Consider this.
12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The Bible is not a novel. It is the Word of GOD. If you read it like you would read a novel, you would not
gain much from it except mass confusion. If you gave a million people each a Bible, and asked each to interpret
it, you would get a million different interpretations. Which one would you believe? Which one has the truth? As we have seen, ‘Truth is One’. Which person’s interpretation is that truthful ONE?

You’re right it is not a novel. It is THE WORD OF GOD. That is why you need to rely on the Spirit of God for it’s meaning.(see 1Cor.2:12-14 above)

. Would you want to believe the interpretation of one man, whose credentials might be questionable, or of the collective interpretation of a group of men with impeccable credentials AND The Holy Spirit?
The Catholic Church has the Pope and the Magisterium to interpret, preserve, and protect ‘The Deposit of Faith’
for all of us.
. The Magisterium consists of the Pope, and the Cardinals and Bishops acting with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Why trust the “interpretation” of scripture to any man, don’t you trust the Holy Spirit. Who says the pope, cardinals and, bishops are acting with the guidance of the Holy Spirit? The pope cardinals, and bishops.

They meet in councils, and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, make decisions on important matters
regarding the faith.
. Where there is no governor, the people shall fall, but there is safety where there is much counsel: Prov 11:14,24:6
. Designs are strengthened by counsels: Prov 20:18
. The only way we can know ONE truth is to accept ONE authority.

That one authority is and must be The Spirit of The Living God.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

What are some examples of “civilization, country, city, or organization” that failed because they had no effective government? Just curious.

.

Native Americans, Small African Tribes, Non Mayan central Americans, etc.

All the peoples who have disappeared or are disappearing because they were destroyed or absorbed by larger more organized groups.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Native Americans, Small African Tribes, Non Mayan central Americans, etc.

All the peoples who have disappeared or are disappearing because they were destroyed or absorbed by larger more organized groups.

These groups as you state.“have disappeared or are disappearing because they were destroyed or absorbed by larger more organized groups” not because they didn’t have an effective government. Are you saying that an effective government is one which is able to destroy or absorb rather than be destroyed or absorbed?

 

[Bill_Pick]

These groups as you state.“have disappeared or are disappearing because they were destroyed or absorbed by larger more organized groups” not because they didn’t have an effective government. Are you saying that an effective government is one which is able to destroy or absorb rather than be destroyed or absorbed?

Your point is well taken but if you read the bible Jesus will not let this happen to His Church

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Your point is well taken but if you read the bible Jesus will not let this happen to His Church

Bill, I’m really not making a point here, just asking a question for clarity sake. The original question was “What are some examples of “civilization, country, city, or organization” that failed because they had no effective government? Just curious.” It really had nothing to do with the church.
So are you saying that Jesus will not allow this (by this i’m assuming you mean be absorbed or destoyed) to happen to the catholic church by making it an entity that destroys or absorbs. If this is what you are saying please explain. Because I don’t beleive that this is what Christ would do.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Bill, I’m really not making a point here, just asking a question for clarity sake. The original question was “What are some examples of “civilization, country, city, or organization” that failed because they had no effective government? Just curious.” It really had nothing to do with the church.
So are you saying that Jesus will not allow this (by this i’m assuming you mean be absorbed or destoyed) to happen to the catholic church by making it an entity that destroys or absorbs. If this is what you are saying please explain. Because I don’t beleive that this is what Christ would do.

Richard, Christ protedts His Churcht mt…16=20-20 and mt 23;2 and please remember the Church is the pillar of truth

 

[simplynoone]

The Catholic Church has the Pope and the Magisterium to interpret, preserve, and protect ‘The Deposit of Faith’
for all of us.
. The Magisterium consists of the Pope, and the Cardinals and Bishops acting with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
. They meet in councils, and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, make decisions on important matters
regarding the faith.
. Where there is no governor, the people shall fall, but there is safety where there is much counsel: Prov 11:14,24:6
. Designs are strengthened by counsels: Prov 20:18
. The only way we can know ONE truth is to accept ONE authority.

If anyone is to go to anyone for understanding, it should be designated by God, no? And He does designate a People!

Psalm 78:
5 For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:

Psalm 147:
18 He sendeth out his word, and melteth them: he causeth his wind to blow, and the waters flow.
19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.
20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD

Isaiah 2: 3
And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Isaiah 9: 8
The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.

Funny… nothing about a Pope, a Church, or a Gentile can be found as having the testimony established with them. AND God says His counsel SHALL STAND and that He does not change!! Now that is a God worthy of my Trust!!

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard, Christ protedts His Churcht mt…16=20-20 and mt 23;2 and please remember the Church is the pillar of truth

This is probably my fault , perhaps I’m not making myself clear enough. I think the first bible verse you quote here is Matt16;20 which is 20Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. Matt23:2 is 2Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat: These don’t say anything about protecting anything.And to get back to my question. Do you think that Christ protects His church by making it an entity that destroys and absorbs?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

If anyone is to go to anyone for understanding, it should be designated by God, no? And He does designate a People!

Psalm 78:
5 For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:

Psalm 147:
18 He sendeth out his word, and melteth them: he causeth his wind to blow, and the waters flow.
19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.
20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD

Isaiah 2: 3
And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Isaiah 9: 8
The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.

Funny… nothing about a Pope, a Church, or a Gentile can be found as having the testimony established with them. AND God says His counsel SHALL STAND and that He does not change!! Now that is a God worthy of my Trust!!

AMEN!!!

 

[Bill_Pick]

AMEN!!!

The verse I gave you last night are 1tim 3;15 mt16;18-20 and mt18;17-18 I think thats right,I,m not good at being a parrot of the bible,if the verse are not right,then I will look them up for you. Have a good day or night and may Our Lord bless you,its am here

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Your point is well taken but if you read the bible Jesus will not let this happen to His Church

Jesus also will not permit His Church to disinigrate into myriad splinters.

By allowing the Bible to “interpret itself” through the alleged “prompting” of the Holy Spirit, the current count is 1 Church, 33,000+ Protestant Sects.

The Holy Spirit does not promote disunity and chaos. So where did all those sects come from?