Will hell spit out its dead?

[Vile_Servant]

You could say that the “abode/grave” "hell’ covers all of the souls of the deceased: Heaven, Hell and Purgatory. They`re like divisions in it.
Yep: on Doomsday, each of these souls wil be (re)united with a body. No more dying. No more disembodied souls. No more “Grave”.

Dear SunnaB16,

You are extremely confused over the Catholic Church’s teachings about Heaven, Hell and Purgatory. I suggest you re-read the Catechism carefully, before you confuse our brother Fidei even more.

You are proposing the doctrine of soul sleep, which is completely contrary to Catholic doctrine. You are also proposing that heaven is part of hell, which is patently false.

Cheers.

 

[SunnaB16]

Dear SunnaB16,
Incorrect. Hell is a place

Hell, meaning the “abode” of the damned, wont be a PLACE until the souls of the damned are (re)united with bodies. A spirit, ANY SPIRIT, doesnt exist in SPACE. A spirit, including the human soul, is immaterial, and consists “only” of intellect and will. Thats why ive said “state”, rather than **“place” **.Don`t get the **spiritual/immaterial **mixed up with the physical/material.
Obviously, Heaven is a place (as well as a state) because our Lord and His mother are physically there.
Purgatory will never be a place.

You are extremely confused over the Catholic Church’s teachings about Heaven, Hell and Purgatory. I suggest you re-read the Catechism carefully, before you confuse our brother Fidei even more.

It`s bad enough having to do battle with an ex-Catholic…

You are proposing the doctrine of soul sleep, which is completely contrary to Catholic doctrine. You are also proposing that heaven is part of hell, which is patently false.
Cheers.

How in blazes can you say that i`m “proposing the doctrine of soul sleep”??? The word “state”? Sorry if that misled you…there was no intention of suggesting soul sleep! (Gasp! Shudder!)
And “proposing that heaven is part of hell”? The OLDER meaning of “Hell” which covered all disembodied souls.

This whole thing started because of the current generally understood meaning of the word “hell”, as being for the damned only, versus its much earlier meaning as being for all of the dead. The context is Rev. 20:13, “…death and hell…”: ie "hell being the “abode” of the dead, and used only in older Bible translations.

"Bigger Than Ben Hur!"

 

[Vile_Servant]

Hell, meaning the “abode” of the damned, won`t be a PLACE until the souls of the damned are (re)united with bodies. Purgatory will never be a place.

The Catholic Encyclopaedia states:
Hell (infernus) in theological usage is a place of punishment after death.
newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm

Purgatory (Lat., “purgare”, to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching **is a place **or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God’s grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.
newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm

And “proposing that heaven is part of hell”? The OLDER meaning of “Hell” which covered all disembodied souls.

You wrote:
"You could say that the “abode/grave” “hell’ covers all of the souls of the deceased: Heaven, Hell and Purgatory. They`re like divisions in it.”

So you are saying that a soul that goes to heaven immediately after death doesn’t actually go to heaven, but to a subdivision of “abode/grave”“hell”?

This whole thing started because of the current generally understood meaning of the word “hell”, as being for the damned only, versus its much earlier meaning as being for all of the dead. The context is Rev. 20:13, “…death and hell…”: ie "hell being the “abode” of the dead, and used only in older Bible translations.

The Catholic Encyclopaedia explains the meanings of the word “hell” as follows;
Hell (infernus) in theological usage is a place of punishment after death. Theologians distinguish four meanings of the term hell:

1 )hell in the strict sense, or the place of punishment for the damned, be they demons or men;
2 )the limbo of infants (limbus parvulorum), where those who die in original sin alone, and without personal mortal sin, are confined and undergo some kind of punishment;
3) the limbo of the Fathers (limbus patrum), in which the souls of the just who died before Christ awaited their admission to heaven; for in the meantime heaven was closed against them in punishment for the sin of Adam;
4) purgatory, where the just, who die in venial sin or who still owe a debt of temporal punishment for sin, are cleansed by suffering before their admission to heaven.
newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm

Nowhere is heaven included in the meaning of hell.

"Bigger Than Ben Hur!"

I’m not sure why you quoted this, but I do like the movie very much.

 

[SunnaB16]

The Catholic Encyclopaedia states:
Hell (infernus) in theological usage is a place of punishment after death.

Purgatory (Lat., “purgare”, to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching **is a place **or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God’s grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.

There must be an easier way to clock up 500 posts in 6 months!

Youre still grabbing the bull by the tail! Were on different wavelengths over word usage.
ive deliberately used the word "STATE", rather than "PLACE", to avoid giving the impression that these "abodes" are physical, 3-dimensional locations. A spirit is immaterial, and DOES NOT OCCUPY SPACE. If you want to calll Heaven, Purgatory and Hell "places", thats your business; but my own use of the word “state” is an attempt to be more PRECISE. THATS THE ONLY REASON FOR MY CHOICE OF THAT WORD! BECAUSE *PHYSICALLY*, A SPIRIT IS *NOWHERE*. FULL STOP! THATS IT!
Look at the terms: “STATE of Grace” and **“STATE of mortal sin”. **Theyre not physical; theyre spiritual.

You would have heard the question: “How many angels can sit on the head of a pin?”. The questions meaningless, of course, for the above reason (angels being immaterial). **If you dont like the word “state”, substitute “place” every time i use “state”.**

You wrote:

"You could say that the “abode/grave” "hell’ covers all of the souls of the deceased: Heaven, Hell and Purgatory. They`re like divisions in it."

Metaphorically speaking. The word “divisions” is another metaphor because there`s nothing PHYSICAL. And the ARCHAIC meaning of “hell” (see below).

So you are saying that a soul that goes to heaven immediately after death doesn’t actually go to heaven, but to a subdivision of “abode/grave”“hell”?

NO!!! i just lumped all of the disembodied souls under the terms “the abode of the dead” or “the grave”.
The souls of those who die in the state of Grace and are spotless immediately enjoy the Beatific Vision. There was no intention of suggesting anything else.

For the third time, comparing Bible translations:
Douay Rheims Bible: “…and death and HELL gave up their dead…”
Revised Standard Version: “…Death and HADES gave up the dead…”
Good News Bible: “Death and THE WORLD OF THE DEAD also gave up the dead…”
The language of the Douay Rheims Bible is archaic, and uses “hell” to mean the abode (or world) of the dead. Thats all i was trying to show; NOTHING ELSE. "Hades" is pretty "olde worlde" as well. Meanings change with time. Keep in mind that The Catholic Encyclopaedia, itself, wasnt published last month, either; it was published between 1907 and 1914.

The Catholic Encyclopaedia explains the meanings of the word “hell” as follows;
Hell (infernus) in theological usage is a place of punishment after death. Theologians distinguish four meanings of the term hell:

1 )hell in the strict sense, or the place of punishment for the damned, be they demons or men;

That`s what virtually all of us regard as Hell. Notice that it says: “hell in the strict sense”. In other words: earlier on, there was a wider sense.

2 )the limbo of infants (limbus parvulorum), where those who die in original sin alone, and without personal mortal sin, are confined and undergo some kind of punishment;

This is still only speculation. They would be deprived of the Beatific Vision.

1. the limbo of the Fathers (limbus patrum), in which the souls of the just who died before Christ awaited their admission to heaven; for in the meantime heaven was closed against them in punishment for the sin of Adam;

This is the “Hell” our Lords soul went to, as in the Apostles Creed. It shows that in earlier times, “Hell” had a different meaning.

Nowhere is heaven included in the meaning of hell.

These days: no.

I’m not sure why you quoted this, but I do like the movie very much.

Because what should have been settled in a few lines has turned into a monster! A blockbuster!
ive probably spent more time on this thread than the duration of that film (DVD); including all of the commentaries. Throw The Ten Comandments and Frankensteins Monster in there, as well.