"Will Pope Francis Stop the aggression of Malankara Catholic Rite against the Indian Malankara Orthodox Church"

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Yeah, I’m sure all of that is true, but the differences between the dialects are pretty regular and predictable; I don’t speak Syriac, but I can still tell which is being used (usually), just by listening for the forms of the words being used – the West Syriac/Turyoyo noun forms generally end in -o, while the East Syriac/Swedaya forms end in -a, so ‘Mshiho’ would be West Syriac, ‘Mshiha’ would be East Syriac. Also they use different scripts.
 
dzheremi said:
Yeah, I’m sure all of that is true, but the differences between the dialects are pretty regular and predictable; I don’t speak Syriac, but I can still tell which is being used (usually), just by listening for the forms of the words being used – the West Syriac/Turyoyo noun forms generally end in -o, while the East Syriac/Swedaya forms end in -a, so ‘Mshiho’ would be West Syriac, ‘Mshiha’ would be East Syriac. Also they use different scripts.
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Ah I see your point but my question is, why would the rebelling Nasranis accept this bishop who was not of their same ritual church (Church of the East)? My guess is that they accepted the West Syriac Orthodoxy because it was significantly similar to the East Syriac Church of the East than that of Latin Catholicism.
 
malphono said:
Indeed the Portuguese, through the ubiquitous Jesuits, did a “job” there, but it would seem that the ACoE itself was at least partially to blame. In its decline, it more-or-less neglected the Malabar branch of the Church and it was just that, I think, which set the stage for what the Portuguese/Jesuits ultimately wrought. And, of course, its aftermath, including the CoE Protestants.
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CoE Protestants?
 
malphono said:
That article sounds to me to be nothing but bitter polemic from some highly disgruntled “Orthodox” Malayali person. We’ve had a few such post on this forum in the past. For my part, I really don’t care what some hot-head has to say. From what I know, Mor Basilous Cleemis should be officially recognized as “Catholicos” (and of course that means that the formal separation from the SCC that was made in the 1980s would have to be undone, but that’s another matter) of the Syro-Malankara Church.
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I agree…The Orthodox always just complain “for the sake of ecumenism”…What ecumenism when they never invite it? Just make excuses in the name of it… Sick…:eek:
 
RomanCatholic66 said:
I agree…The Orthodox always just complain “for the sake of ecumenism”…What ecumenism when they never invite it? Just make excuses in the name of it.
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I partially agree with you; but I wouldn’t expect an Orthodox person to say “for the sake of ecumenism” since they are pretty consistently *against *ecumenism. (Or at least, they’re against ecumenism with Protestants or Catholics … they seem to be quite keen on ecumenism toward the Oriental Orthodox.) So I would change your last part to “make excuses to avoid engaging in ecumenism”.
 
Suffice to say, Malankara Syrian Catholic titles are of no concern to some tiny faction of laymen within the Indian Orthodox Church. If anything, this is to be addressed by bishops. The autonomous particular laws of the MSCC refer to His Beatitude as “Catholicos”, this is recognized by all the Eastern CC and the one Latin Church. The end.
 
Regarding the history of the Church of the East/Syro-Malabar/Syriac Orthodox/Indian Orthodox/Independent Orthodox/Mar Thoma protestant/Malankara Catholic/Chaldean Syrian Churches. It’s like strands of DNA, all intertwined and bound together. Taking a small piece to propagandize leaves the rest still unanswered.
 
Sophronius said:
How are relations between the two churches. I’ve been under the impression the Oriental Catholics and Oriental Orthodox have been far more cordial and fraternal with each other than the Byzantines. I hope they don’t petition Pope Francis. I think it’s great that Mar Baselios has been acclaimed Catholicos. What are people’s thoughts?

*The election of Pope Francis have brought much hope for the advancing improvement of Orthodox- Roman Catholic ties and cooperation. In a recent message to the Executive Council of Orthodoxy Cognate PAGE Society, Mr George Alexander expressed his high concerns over the attitude of Malankara Catholic Rite towards the Indian Orthodox Church which has been continuing since 1930 when the Malankara rite broke away from the Indian Orthodox Church under the leadership of Archbishop Ivanios.

Since 2005 the aggression has changed to a newer level when the Primate of Malankara Catholic Rite declared himself to be Catholicos along with the title Major Archbishop of Trivandrum of the Syr0-Malankaras.

“In the year 2005 this Church was elevated to the status of a Major Archiepiscopal Church and suddenly the Church began to address its Primate as Major Archbishop Catholicos. Catholicos title has not been granted by Vatican and that has been clearly mentioned in the letter (Port.N. 2581/2005/h) sent on 18th June 2005 by His Excellency Cardinal Walter Kasper, the then President of the Pontifical Council for the Promotion of Christian Unity to the late Metropolitan Philipose Mar Eusebius , the President of the Ecumenical Relations Department of Indian Malankara Orthodox Church.

But the Syro-Malankara Catholic Rite continue to use the title Catholicos along with tile of Major Archbishop. Apart from that the Primate of the Syro-Malankara Catholic Rite claims the following titles such as “The Successor of the Apostolic See of St Thomas In India and Malankara Metropolitan”

Both titles are exclusive privilege of the primate of the Indian Malankara Orthodox Church. So presently Major Archbishop Baslius Cleemis being a Cardinal confuse the situation further as he holds three tiles Major Archbishop, Cardinal and “self proclaimed Catholicos”. The original title is nothing more than His Excellency/His Beatitude Baselius Cleemis – Major Archbishop of Trivandrum of the Syro-Malanakras (now a Cardinal).”

The OCP Executive Council hope that the hierarchy of Indian Malanakra Orthodox Church will take adequate and official steps to ask the Roman Catholic Church to rectify the error made by Vatican and Malankara Catholic Rite. The Council hopes newly elected Pope Francis will genuinely ask Malankara Catholic Rite to immediately withdrew all false claims and refrain from further aggression so as to foster better ecumenical relations.*
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What aggression? Why can’t both share the same titles in common? Do we fight with Orthodoxy who use The “Catholic” name ? NO… So? 🤷
 
RomanCatholic66 said:
Do we fight with Orthodoxy who use The “Catholic” name ? NO
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Actually, I wouldn’t answer that with a simple “YES” or “NO”.

I’ll grant you that the Orthodox are pretty reticent about calling themselves “Catholic”; but if you actually pin an Orthodox down with the question “Who can most properly be called ‘Catholic’?” he/she will almost certainly answer “the Orthodox”.
 
Peter_J said:
Actually, I wouldn’t answer that with a simple “YES” or “NO”.

I’ll grant you that the Orthodox are pretty reticent about calling themselves “Catholic”; but if you actually pin an Orthodox down with the question “Who can most properly be called ‘Catholic’?” he/she will almost certainly answer “the Orthodox”.
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its not about that. its that some are so strict in their responses to catholic marriages…some get all buzzed about an issue and want to argue while others open the door… to the same issues the other will turn around and say it’s doctrine… They are all so confusing and totally un-uniform in their “DOCTRINAL” stand…They really are… The OOC is much more closer…Heck, one of their priest friend let’s me partake of the Eucharist with him at his Monastery in IN, while another from the Russian Church said he would have him excommunicated…I kid you not! Unreal…They have no Universal Catechism whereby you can know where they stand on any Moral issue … fuhgettaboutit… 😦
 
RomanCatholic66 said:
its not about that.
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Not trying to turn this into a school-yard squabble, but your post took of us off-topic more than mine did. 😉 ;D

Although I think your last post has both of them beat:
RomanCatholic66 said:
its that some are so strict in their responses to catholic marriages…some get all buzzed about an issue and want to argue while others open the door… to the same issues the other will turn around and say it’s doctrine… They are all so confusing and totally un-uniform in their “DOCTRINAL” stand…They really are… The OOC is much more closer…Heck, one of their priest friend let’s me partake of the Eucharist with him at his Monastery in IN, while another from the Russian Church said he would have him excommunicated…I kid you not! Unreal…They have no Universal Catechism whereby you can know where they stand on any Moral issue … fuhgettaboutit… 😦
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