WINE

[Orogeny]

most wine sold at the store have preservatives in it, which is a no-no for liturgical use… these preservatives are called sulfates. Technically the wine should be specifically made and be noted as sacramental/liturgical wine.

Since sulfites are a naturally occuring compound in wine, even organic wine, does the addition of sulfites invalidate it for use?

ecowine.com/sulfites.htm

Peace

Tim

 

[Marauder]

Since sulfites are a naturally occuring compound in wine, even organic wine, does the addition of sulfites invalidate it for use?

The sulfites that are there through the natural process wouldn’t make the wine illicit, if any were added or anything was added at all other then grapes, the wine would become illicit.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Never seen one that didn’t. The stuff used in my parish, unfortunately, also has “other fruit flavorings.” This also is common but not universal for boxed wines.

JSA

Then it is questionable if not illicit matter for the Eucharist. and should be brought to your pastors attention and or the Bishops attention.

 

[Linuse]

With a short stay in the Orlando diocese, I was informed that the bishop of such stated that all California grape wines do meet the requirements for Sacramental wines.
As to mixing, some reds are very bad for staining the altar clothes. Mixing, for some reason stops this.
Also some pure wines are very unpalatable to many. Mixing a dry and a sweet grape wine opens the door to more receiving from the cup. In one parish where I was stationed, they had overordered a Burgundy that was instant ‘pucker power’ every time I used it. Wow! was it dry!

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

With a short stay in the Orlando diocese, I was informed that the bishop of such stated that all California grape wines do meet the requirements for Sacramental wines.
As to mixing, some reds are very bad for staining the altar clothes. Mixing, for some reason stops this.
Also some pure wines are very unpalatable to many. Mixing a dry and a sweet grape wine opens the door to more receiving from the cup. In one parish where I was stationed, they had overordered a Burgundy that was instant ‘pucker power’ every time I used it. Wow! was it dry!

I do not care what it tastes like, only what it is.

 

[Marauder]

With a short stay in the Orlando diocese, I was informed that the bishop of such stated that all California grape wines do meet the requirements for Sacramental wines.

I wonder if the Bishop actually said this on it was one of the ever popular lines that many people that like to justify abuses use.

“Oh yeah, the Bishop said we could do it.” Yet when the Bishop shows up for Mass the abuse doesn’t take place.

RS specfically says there are not supposed to be anything added other then fruit of the grape. Any additives other then those that are part of the natural winemaking process make the wine illicit. Post #17 displays the best definition of what is allowed and what isn’t.

Mixing of different types of allowed wines isn’t prohibited but it isn’t necessary either.

 

[G_S]

What do you mean by a lay person mixes the wine? A lay person may not pour the wine into the chalice.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Most of the major California wines are quite acceptable for sacramental use as they are “pure wine” with no additives. Since that is the only requirement, the bishop was quite correct.

Deacon Ed

 

[slyboots]

ecowine.com/sulfites.htm

"The FDA says only about .4% of the population, or about a million people, is considered highly allergic to sulfites. According to Dr. Vincent Marinkovich, an allergist and clinical immunologist who has performed extensive research on SO 2, sulfites pose no danger to about 99.75% of the population; the highest risk group are asthmatics (about 5% of the population) and only about 5% of this group is allergic to sulfites.

Many people, however, have little tolerance for sulfites. They are considered sulfite-sensitive. Even for moderate wine drinkers, the average level of sulfites found in many commercial wines can cause heartburns or other side effects. **Unpleasant reactions include burning sensations, hives, cramps, and flushing of the skin. **For them, organic wines are an especially good choice since they contain minimal amounts of sulfites that will in most cases lie below their threshold level."

That’s me. It also makes my breathing difficult.
I can drink small amounts of “No added Sulfites” wine. But I miss being able to drink many others.
The wine used sacramentally at mass causes no such problems. So I have to assume I either take so little that I am not affected or that the wine is unsulfited. There is one other possibility, a supernatural one. It is no longer wine but the blood of Our Lord.

 

[turtleoompa]

He takes one box of wine and mixes it with another brand to get a desired rich red color and pours them into an empty wine bottle and puts a cork on it. Then prior to each mass the EMHC pours the mixed wine into the flagon for the gifts.

 

[Marauder]

Most of the major California wines are quite acceptable for sacramental use as they are “pure wine” with no additives. Since that is the only requirement, the bishop was quite correct.

The difference between your statement and the alleged statement that was supposed to have been made by a bishop is ALL vs. MOST. To say all California wines are 100% grape is wrong. Many are, but to even say most are is a jump. As a wine drinker I have had many California wines that have had numerous other fruits and flavors added.

The only ingrediant allowed in sacremental wine is grapes to add anything else makes the wine illicit. If you are using an off the shelf bottle of wine that doesn’t say sacremental wine you need to be sure it doesn’t contain anything else not just assume since it is made in Napa Valley it is 100% grape.

I can’t believe it is even an issue, personally if I was responsable for picking the brand of wine used at Mass I would:
a) make sure it was made in accordance to Vatican guidelines.
b) make sure the winery itself was reputable. Where does the winery donate its charitable money? Do organizations like Planned Parenthood get any of the money?

To just pick a bottle off the shelf and assume just because it is a California winery it is safe is risking making one of the holiest portions of the Mass illicit.

 

[Ham1]

The difference between your statement and the alleged statement that was supposed to have been made by a bishop is ALL vs. MOST. To say all California wines are 100% grape is wrong. Many are, but to even say most are is a jump. **As a wine drinker I have had many California wines that have had numerous other fruits and flavors added.**The only ingrediant allowed in sacremental wine is grapes to add anything else makes the wine illicit. If you are using an off the shelf bottle of wine that doesn’t say sacremental wine you need to be sure it doesn’t contain anything else not just assume since it is made in Napa Valley it is 100% grape.

I can’t believe it is even an issue, personally if I was responsable for picking the brand of wine used at Mass I would:
a) make sure it was made in accordance to Vatican guidelines.
b) make sure the winery itself was reputable. Where does the winery donate its charitable money? Do organizations like Planned Parenthood get any of the money?

To just pick a bottle off the shelf and assume just because it is a California winery it is safe is risking making one of the holiest portions of the Mass illicit.

Just curious about the bolded part. What wines have other fruit flavors added? I would say that is highly uncommon for table wines to have other fruit flavors added. The wine may taste of other fruits but those tastes come from the grapes themselves.

 

[Marauder]

Just curious about the bolded part. What wines have other fruit flavors added? I would say that is highly uncommon for table wines to have other fruit flavors added. The wine may taste of other fruits but those tastes come from the grapes themselves.

I think you need to read the following article.

winesandvines.com/feature_nov_05_natural.html

To summarize many wineries (including those in California since all the wineries addressed by the article are from there) follow one of 4 positions for additives.

Position 1: Add Anything
Position 2: Add Nothing
Position 3: Add as little as possible
Position 4: In between position

Position 2 is the only option that a valid sacremental wine is supposed to take and according to the article, “Some winemakers bravely attempt to make SO2-free wines for the sake of “naturalness” or for health reasons, but for commercial producers, this position is a nonstarter.” The article also talks about additives other the S02.

Basically one winemaker says that most “middle-class wine gluggers” naively believe the marketing that claims purety, etc. That winemaker claims to be mainly in Position 3 and 4 but has even done position 1.

You have to remember, we are not talking high end blends here. Your average parish is not going to be using the expensive blends for the communion wine. It is going to be cheap table wines that are blended more for consistancy then anything else. If an average winery has a bad year they will compensate by using different chemicals, whether they be just finishing agents (i.e. gelatins, citric blends, etc.) or outright adding essences of different fruits.

The key here is that ANY additions to the wine would make it illicit so unless you know for a fact the winery NEVER adds these things to the wine you risk having an illicit wine. Most parishs seem to go to a limited number of sources for the bread that will become the Body of Christ. Why just go to ANY source for the wine that will become the Blood of Christ? Especially when the Vatican says explicitly what is required for communion wine to be licit.

 

[Ham1]

I think you need to read the following article.

winesandvines.com/feature_nov_05_natural.html

To summarize many wineries (including those in California since all the wineries addressed by the article are from there) follow one of 4 positions for additives.

Position 1: Add Anything
Position 2: Add Nothing
Position 3: Add as little as possible
Position 4: In between position

Position 2 is the only option that a valid sacremental wine is supposed to take and according to the article, “Some winemakers bravely attempt to make SO2-free wines for the sake of “naturalness” or for health reasons, but for commercial producers, this position is a nonstarter.” The article also talks about additives other the S02.

Basically one winemaker says that most “middle-class wine gluggers” naively believe the marketing that claims purety, etc. That winemaker claims to be mainly in Position 3 and 4 but has even done position 1.

You have to remember, we are not talking high end blends here. Your average parish is not going to be using the expensive blends for the communion wine. It is going to be cheap table wines that are blended more for consistancy then anything else. If an average winery has a bad year they will compensate by using different chemicals, whether they be just finishing agents (i.e. gelatins, citric blends, etc.) or outright adding essences of different fruits.

The key here is that ANY additions to the wine would make it illicit so unless you know for a fact the winery NEVER adds these things to the wine you risk having an illicit wine. Most parishs seem to go to a limited number of sources for the bread that will become the Body of Christ. Why just go to ANY source for the wine that will become the Blood of Christ? Especially when the Vatican says explicitly what is required for communion wine to be licit.

Thanks for the response. I was curious as a wine-drinker not as much the sacramental aspect.

Most sacramental makers that have websites clearly state that they are in accord with canon law. I would agree that parishes should buy from those type of places only.

 

[G_S]

He takes one box of wine and mixes it with another brand to get a desired rich red color and pours them into an empty wine bottle and puts a cork on it. Then prior to each mass the EMHC pours the mixed wine into the flagon for the gifts.

Since this takes place prior to the Mass, it would be liturgically fine as long as during the Mass a deacon or priest pours the wine into the chalice(s) along with a drop of water while saying th requisite prayers. The wine may not be consecrated in the flagon.

Some boxed wines are not quite suitable because they are closer to a wine drink or a wine cooler.

 

[blackrobe]

Then it is questionable if not illicit matter for the Eucharist. and should be brought to your pastors attention and or the Bishops attention.

Agreed. We don’t have a pastor per se but rather a Parish Director and a Liturgical Minister. The latter, I’m sure, would laugh off my concerns. The former has already been corrected by the bishop for other liturgical irregularities in which she and the LM persist.

On the matter of the wine I feel I should bring it up with the Parish Director first and see her reaction. I haven’t yet gotten up the nerve.

JSA

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Agreed. We don’t have a pastor per se but rather a Parish Director and a Liturgical Minister. The latter, I’m sure, would laugh off my concerns. The former has already been corrected by the bishop for other liturgical irregularities in which she and the LM persist.

On the matter of the wine I feel I should bring it up with the Parish Director first and see her reaction. I haven’t yet gotten up the nerve.

JSA

Something as serious as the Matter for the Holy Eucharist should get the Bishops attention.

 

[Elzee]

My friend is an EMHC and says they use Riunite and Paul Masson (Rose or Blush) in her parish.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I do not care what it tastes like, only what it is.

The Blood of Christ