Wishing to Convert from a Seemingly Difficult Situation

[danielkennedyjr]

I want to first apologize if this post is not in the correct forum.

My situation is thus:

• My wife and I, both baptized, have been once previously married. She and I divorced at the same time. My former spouse was never baptized; her spouse was. None of us were/are Catholic. My first marriage ended due to infidelity on my then wife’s part. My wife’s first marriage ended due to abuse from her then husband,
• I wish to become Catholic; my wife does not. She will not even consider it (I mentioned converting to her and she replied that if I do, she will become Jewish. That may seem odd but you have to know her to understand). I hope that if I convert she will witness what the Church is about and have a have a change of heart.
• I have one son (15-years-old and baptized) from my prior marriage; my current wife has no children.

My questions are:

• Do we both need annulments *before *I can begin RCIA?
• Is it OK that she does not plan on becoming Catholic?
• How do you find a church that is right for you? I’m very much a traditionalist.
• What to do if my current wife will not convalidate our marriage? She is somewhat hostile towards the Church although she respects many aspects of it (she abhors the perceived patriarchal structure).

Thank you!

 

[kristanl]

I’m only 22, so I’m not sure how long annulments take, but I have heard they take awhile. I’m going to assume that since you were not married in the Catholic Church that you will not need one. I COULD be wrong. After going through RCIA, I think you can have a blessing to make your wedding to your current wife, a Catholic union, and a sacrament for you. You may want to look into seeing if you can start RCIA a little late, as it started in the past couple of weeks in most places.
Your wife does not need to become Catholic. What are you planning on doing with your son for religion (does he live with you?) You could always become Catholic first, and they may follow in your foot steps. You said it exactly right, that you can be a witness to your wife about the Catholic faith!
As for as looking for a Church… You could just type Catholic churches in _____ (your city you live in), and find one you like around you. You are not stuck to that church for the rest of your life. So I would just find a church that is close to you, and begin RCIA there, and if you decide to go to another church later then that is good
I guess for most people the drive is sometimes what gets them. There is a beautiful Cathedral about 45 mins from my house. But its 45 mins both ways! So that is not very convienent for me. But there are about 5 Catholic Churches within like 20 mins of me. It all just depends what you like.
I would really like for you to start RCIA as soon as you can!!
Enjoy!

 

[dashso40]

My in laws received an annulment …it took less than a year…I don’t know the exact time…you should go to your local parish and talk to the priest there…If you are a traditionalist, look for a parish with a latin Mass…if your wife is hostile towards the Catholic church, she may become hostile towards you…Good luck and God bless you

 

[puzzleannie]

The simple answer is I don’t know. There are too many variables, you have touched on some of the relevant factors, but not all of them. The only way to get an answer that pertains to your own individual situation is to sit down with your pastor–make an appointment, this is not something do discuss on the fly–and lay out all the facts, let him ask questions, get the info he asks for. He well tell you what course to follow.

Missing for instance is info on whether any of the parties in the first marriages were Catholic, that would change things. (somebody may have been baptized Catholic even if they were not practicing at the time of the marriage–you would be surprised what comes out in an annulment investigation)

All you will get on this thread trying to discuss an individual case is confusion. The short, direct way to go about this is with your pastor. If he does not know he will put you in touch with someone who is a liaison with the diocesan marriage tribunal who will guide you.

Welcome home
If God wants you here, and He does, it will happen, but not necessarily according to our preferred time frame. The roadblocks are just as much part of the process as are the smooth sailing days. That is why Jesus allowed the apostles to experience storms and troubled water.

there is a solution for each of the situations you mention and your pastor can explain fully. No your wife does not need to become Catholic, however she does have the right to understand what it is you are agreeing to when you convert.

 

[Mark77]

Give your life to Jesus, everything else will work out, despite all of our failings!

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

 

[j2c99]

She will not even consider it (I mentioned converting to her and she replied that if I do, she will become Jewish. That may seem odd but you have to know her to understand).

Maybe you should just “convert” to Judaism , and see if she goes opposite of you and into the Catholic Church… since she seems very mature to just go to Judaism in spite of you it seems.

PS. It was a joke.

 

[stbruno]

The advice to go talk to your local pastor is very sage and the best place to start. The thing I would like to add to that…is to pray. Pray very hard. You don’t need to be Catholic to do that. Plus you can do it also in the presence of the Lord, by going to any Catholic church regularly, every Sunday and ask God to help you come home to Him. He loves to see his flock, and He sent His only Son to redeem you, not just baptized Catholics. All his sheep. And then listen to His reply to your prayers…PS, in most cases it’s a whisper or like a gentle breeze…but sometimes, He will make it so hard you have to be blind to miss it! You will be in my prayers.

Plus there is a wonderful website to check out.

www.catholicscomehome.org
Check it out.

 

[danielkennedyjr]

Maybe you should just “convert” to Judaism , and see if she goes opposite of you and into the Catholic Church… since she seems very mature to just go to Judaism in spite of you it seems.

PS. It was a joke.

I understand the joke because the situation seems absurd. I don’t understand why you put convert in quotes, though. Let me explain her situation a bit; it’s not simply a matter of a 40-years-old’s immaturity.

My wife grew up in the Assembly of God churches. Her church, like many of that ilk, play on your emotions and focus almost entirely on the Holy Ghost (Spirit). Christ Jesus played a distant secondary role. The entire service -which is supposed to be unprogrammed- did follow a distinct pattern. That pattern was built around manipulating your feelings. It could be uplifting one moment, somberly morose the next, followed by an altar call and speaking in tongues, et cetera.

After she graduated high school she went to an American Baptist university in the Philadelphia area where she double-majored in psychology and youth ministry. After graduation she went to grad school and got her M.A.T.S. By this time, Protestant Christianity had been completely decimated to her. Her upbringing in the AG church, which de-emphasized the role of Jesus and had a very observable form of sexism, a sexism that was reinforced by her education of the patriarchal hierarchy present in the Hebrew and Greek scriptures, completely turned her off from Christianity. And, to be honest, I completely understand. She had been vulnerable as a child and taken advantage of. Her education “set her free”, so to speak - she was able to escape that unhealthy atmosphere.

After she received her graduate degree she got her first job at a conservative synagogue. It was there that she was treated with respect and not as inferior to men (she could be part of a minyan, for example). She felt welcomed. She could connect with God without the emotional baggage, and since Jesus was never a real part of her church experience, it wasn’t difficult to discard any religious belief in Him. Enter me…

I have always been a Protestant of the Episcopalian bent. I went to "high" churches, jokingly called Catholic-lite. She wasn’t too keen on the Anglican tradition. She felt more connected to Judaism. She held off her desires to convert to Judaism and we struck a middle ground - the United Church of Christ. UCC churches are congregational and as such the beliefs can vary wildly. That is something we could both work with.

Now that I’m a little older and beset by a few illnesses, my mortality has been fully realized. I always felt a calling to the RC church and have decided to not waste anymore of my time. I now know -actualize- that life on this earth is temporary. For her, the idea of leaving our compromised middle-ground (for which we both sacrificed) is a violation of that trust. She could very well feel “freed” to finally convert to Judaism.

This is a thought out, longtime coming, and mature decision on her part. My breaking off of our deal was just a catalyst. So even though her reaction may sound purely reactive, it isn’t.

I hope that clears up the “seemingly difficult situation” that I used in the title of this thread. If you read this post in its entirety I sincerely thank you.

~Dan

 

[danielkennedyjr]

Missing for instance is info on whether any of the parties in the first marriages were Catholic, that would change things. (somebody may have been baptized Catholic even if they were not practicing at the time of the marriage–you would be surprised what comes out in an annulment investigation).

I didn’t word my post well. Nobody was Catholic. I was baptized Episcopalian; my first wife was not baptized at all. We married at the age of 20. My wife was baptized as a young adult in the Assembly of God church; her husband was baptized as a young adult in the Anabaptist tradition (Mennonite). No Catholicism anywhere.

…there is a solution for each of the situations you mention and your pastor can explain fully. No your wife does not need to become Catholic, however she does have the right to understand what it is you are agreeing to when you convert.

Thank you. I will make an appointment with a local priest (have they always been called pastors?).

Thanks!

 

[pandacordova]

If your wife is as stubborn as my husband you may be waiting a while. I am starting my 2nd year in RCIA. I have never been married before but because my husband was his marriage needs to be annuled before I can enter the church. My husband refuses to do this because he is not the one that wants to convert to the Catholic Church.

So speaking from experience, yes both of your marriages will need to be annulled before you can become Catholic.

That being said hang in there you are not the only one in this situation. I for one can be just as stubborn as my spouse.

 

[danielkennedyjr]

If your wife is as stubborn as my husband you may be waiting a while. I am starting my 2nd year in RCIA.

I just asked her and she says she has no problem having her prior marriage annulled. She doesn’t agree with the logic of the process (if the prior marriage wasn’t valid why should it need to be annulled?). But, to her, it’s no sweat off her back.

I have never been married before but because my husband was his marriage needs to be annuled before I can enter the church.

Isn’t there a special process if the spouse is “hostile” - I may be thinking of something else.

My husband refuses to do this because he is not the one that wants to convert to the Catholic Church.

Which means that he shouldn’t care one way or the other, right? How does it inconvenience him?

 

[pandacordova]

I am glad that your wife has consented to get her first marriage annuled. That will help you out a lot.

My priest is looking for any loop hole that would allow me to move forward without my husband annulling his first marriage but has not found anything yet.

As far as why my husband will not start the annullment process? I believe that the Holy Spirit is working on him, and he is running. We don’t react logically when we are running from God.

 

[danielkennedyjr]

I hope it works out for the both of you!

I have an appointment, tomorrow, with the Deacon who is the Christian Initiation Coordinator at the parish I’m interested in. I’ll let you all know how it goes!

 

[jmcrae]

I just asked her and she says she has no problem having her prior marriage annulled. She doesn’t agree with the logic of the process (if the prior marriage wasn’t valid why should it need to be annulled?).

It isn’t “being annulled.” The process is to discern whether there was a marriage existing at all, in the first place. If the state of the validity of the marriage were knowable with certainty, then the Tribunal process would not be necessary. But they don’t “annul” the marriage. If they find that the marriage was valid, then it remains valid.

 

[danielkennedyjr]

Thanks for clearing that up. The terminology is confusing. What is being sought, then, is a “decree of ecclesiastical nullity”, aka annulment, right? The Church initially recognizes my first marriage as valid until they investigate and find otherwise? Do I understand?

 

[jmcrae]

Thanks for clearing that up. The terminology is confusing. What is being sought, then, is a “decree of ecclesiastical nullity”,

Yes.

aka annulment, right?

No, it is not “also known as an annulment.” An “annulment” is the process of causing a valid marriage to be made invalid. The Church does not do this.

The Church initially recognizes my first marriage as valid until they investigate and find otherwise? Do I understand?

Yes. And if they find that it was valid, then they don’t do anything to cause it to become invalid - there would be no “annulment” taking place. They only report their findings. If they find that the marriage was null, then they issue a Decree of Nullity. If they find that the marriage was valid, then they don’t do anything; you remain married to that person until death ye do part.

 

[danielkennedyjr]

Thank you, jmcrae; I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[jmcrae]

Thank you, jmcrae; I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut.

I hope it clarifies the issue for you. Too many people mistakenly refer to it as an “annulment,” which gives people a false impression of what is going on with the Tribunal - we often get people here wondering, “How come, if divorce is against Church law, can people get annulments from the Marriage Tribunal,” and the short answer is, “They can’t.”

It would be a lot more clear what’s going on, if people would just remember to use the correct terms.

 

[4EverHis]

I want to first apologize if this post is not in the correct forum.

My situation is thus:

• My wife and I, both baptized, have been once previously married. She and I divorced at the same time. My former spouse was never baptized; her spouse was. None of us were/are Catholic. My first marriage ended due to infidelity on my then wife’s part. My wife’s first marriage ended due to abuse from her then husband,
• I wish to become Catholic; my wife does not. She will not even consider it (I mentioned converting to her and she replied that if I do, she will become Jewish. That may seem odd but you have to know her to understand). I hope that if I convert she will witness what the Church is about and have a have a change of heart.
• I have one son (15-years-old and baptized) from my prior marriage; my current wife has no children.

My questions are:

• Do we both need annulments *before *I can begin RCIA?
• Is it OK that she does not plan on becoming Catholic?
• How do you find a church that is right for you? I’m very much a traditionalist.
• What to do if my current wife will not convalidate our marriage? She is somewhat hostile towards the Church although she respects many aspects of it (she abhors the perceived patriarchal structure).

Thank you!

Have you ever read Scott Hahn’s “Rome Sweet Home”? you might relate to parts of it! His wife also did not want to become Catholic, but he did… now they are both Catholic though pray for your wife… you would need an annulment, but it sounds like you’ll get one easily from what you said. Look around at the different parishes in your area, and see which one suits you better… if there are any that do the Latin Mass, they are usually pretty traditional and orthodox (but make sure it’s not SSPX or any other schismatic groups). Oratories, cathedrals, etc are also good. I’m sorry I don’t really know the answers to your other questions - I’m a new convert myself - but hopefully someone here does God bless!!

edit: You said your wife does not like the Church’s perceived partriarchal structure; perhaps it would help her to know more about Mary’s role in the Church?

 

[danielkennedyjr]

I’m a bit discouraged. The marital issue seems to be an insurmountable obstacle. I was married before; she was married before. Two Decrees of Nullity need to be issued and then my present marriage convalidated.

This could take a very long time. There’s also a possibility that one (or both) of our “prior” marriages will remain valid - at which point I don’t know where I’d stand with the Church.