Withholding taxes?

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Viki63

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Thoreau said, “Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison.…” He was not a Christian, but someone who believed in following his conscience. He was opposed to slavery, so refused to pay the tax, and spent a night in jail.

If the government does not defund Planned Parenthood, but continues to fund it with our taxes, am I justified in withholding my taxes? As long as I’m willing to accept the consequences.

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No. Render to Caesar what belongs to Caesar.

Periodically we see posts like this: people looking for validation of not paying taxes, and the response is always the same.

Remember that your taxes also pay the salaries of soldiers who collectively keep you safe in bed at night. Think about that one, please.

It makes no difference if you are willing to “accept the consequences.” The consequences are the by product of an immoral action.
 
Viki63 said:
Thoreau said, “Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison.…” He was not a Christian, but someone who believed in following his conscience. He was opposed to slavery, so refused to pay the tax, and spent a night in jail.

If the government does not defund Planned Parenthood, but continues to fund it with our taxes, am I justified in withholding my taxes? As long as I’m willing to accept the consequences.

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No.

The Roman administration engaged in equally egregious wrongs, such as state-sponsored idolatry, and by Saint Paul’s time, persecution of Christians, yet our LORD said to “render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s.”

IMNAAHO, if the society had gone so wrong that continuing to pay taxes was no longer the moral thing to do, it would be time to “vote with your feet” and remove oneself from that society. But not to stay there and continue to benefit from it while refusing to support it.

ICXC NIKA
 
I think we all have taxes we hate to pay, but the fact we are a free society and not like North Korea speaks volumes. Pray for those who are misguided. God knows your heart.
 
No. You cannot act alone outnumbered against a stronger army.

You must wait until the majority in the country oppose a wrong and immoral policy and are represented politically only by those who support a wrong and immoral policy.

At that point your country is no longer a democracy representing the majority but a totalitarian regime ruled by the minority opinion.

At some point in history the usa felt that majority opinion was against British rule and so the majority by force corrected the rule of law.

At some point the majority felt that slavery was wrong and corrected the rule of law by force.

At some point this will happen again. But foolish it is to challenge an army to fight when you know victory is not yet possible. The majority must be with you and the majority of politicians against the majority.
 
It is the duty of the 10th man to object. It was only a small percentage of the population who were against the British rule – not a majority of the people. Ten percent of committed people is all that it takes for radical change. As Christians, do we not think there is a higher law than the laws of a state or of a government?

If we wait until “the majority” are against … fill in the blank … abortion, same sex marriage, etc. … we will be waiting for an eternity. Evil prevails where good people do nothing. If this is a matter of “conscience” for the original poster, then I would urge him or her to follow his or her conscience – being aware that there may be consequences.

As for myself, I have some beverages in my home from companies that I believe have used aborted tissues/ cells as flavor enhancers. I am thoroughly disgusted. Guess what? I’m headed back to the grocery store to return these items and to get a refund. Next time, I will not be making food or beverage purchases from these companies.
 
Are we in the United States a “free society”? How exactly do you define “freedom”?

Perhaps “freedom” is on a continuum. As compared to what? On one end we have North Korea, Iran and Saudi Arabia and on the other end we have (what country? not the USA) …

I think that if the founders of our country were alive today, we would have a 2nd Revolution.
 
Don’t go there. As Catholics we are obliged to file and pay our taxes. Besides, you will just be asking for whole lot of trouble from the IRS, who will not recognize your right to protest and give you nothing but grief, penalties, garnishment of wages…etc.
 
I think it is a tough issue. I’ve read what might be called both sides of the issue and don’t think I have a clear grasp on what is right. Some say ‘render unto Caesar’, but this always had a limit. It was never absolute. A point the other side make is that the whole episode occurs in an attempt to trap Jesus.
PolarGuy said:
Remember that your taxes also pay the salaries of soldiers who collectively keep you safe in bed at night. Think about that one, please.
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I tend to think the soldiers don’t keep me safe but endanger me. In my opinion they are engaged in imperial actions that destabilize the world for the benefit of the power elite.
 
3_Dog_Night said:
Are we in the United States a “free society”? How exactly do you define “freedom”?

Perhaps “freedom” is on a continuum. As compared to what? On one end we have North Korea, Iran and Saudi Arabia and on the other end we have (what country? not the USA) …

I think that if the founders of our country were alive today, we would have a 2nd Revolution.
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The USA does lead the world in individualism, as per the Hofstedt (sp) index, which may however be self-serving as it is probably USA based.

I think the problem is we just became too huge. You can’t have 0.3B people without a whole lot of control. Nor maintain a world-class armed force.

ICXC NIKA
 
It would be interesting to do the math, find out what percentage of the Fed goes to PPH, and then apply that percentage to one’s own taxes. If one paid, for example $2k in federal taxes, I’d be surprised if PPH’s cut were more than a quarter. Granted, that’s a quarter too much, but there’s not a lot we can do about that, given the current administration.
 
ExNilio, if you want to believe the insanity that American soldiers endanger you…please feel free to move to some country where the soldiers keep the people from leaving. The world has many such countries and the USA is not among them.

The US military is the most potent force that had stood between the free world and a horrific fate for the last 70 years. The USSR certainly didn’t fear, say, the French army…
 
PolarGuy said:
No. Render to Caesar what belongs to Caesar.

Periodically we see posts like this: people looking for validation of not paying taxes, and the response is always the same.

Remember that your taxes also pay the salaries of soldiers who collectively keep you safe in bed at night. Think about that one, please.

It makes no difference if you are willing to “accept the consequences.” The consequences are the by product of an immoral action.
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Ive always thought that statement (render unto Caesar…) was a bit too convenient. It doesnt mesh well with many other verses in the bible that instruct us to have NO part in evil, whether it be Govt or not. We are to be concerned with Gods laws first and foremost.

If you know the US Constitution and Bill of Rights, they do accommodate and in some cases REQUIRE citizens to disobey certain laws, of course, many of our most celebrated patriots in US history, if they were alive today and saying the things they said back then, they would be jail, deemed domestic terrorists.
 
Mikekle & others, you can deem Matthew 22:21/render unto Caesar inconvenient if you wish, but Jesus said it. Worse for you, he said it in the context of PAYING TAXES! Sorry to shout as I’m posting from my phone.

Further, please quote me any US law that says it should be disobeyed, or that we are under a duty to disobey any other law.
 
I don’t think anyone must be obliged to obey an unjust law. Its just unfortunate that this is lumped into taxes. If you were told to fund separately the killing of people, small people, you would object to that law.
 
You, your position is unbiblical and inconsistent with sound Catholic theology – because, if you were correct, it would be up the individual to decide subjectively what was an unjust law. Abortion is easy - but what about laws that require, say, payment of local property taxes (which are used to fund municipal firefighters’ salaries, and half a hundred local things anyone might grouse about; this assumes of course that firefighters don’t endanger us:D). Are those laws unjust? Maybe you say so; maybe I disagree.

Look, folks, like it or not, Matthew 22:21 means something, and it was said in the context of paying taxes to the sovereign.
 
“Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s . . .”
It seems to me that Jesus said this as a smart way to get out of the trap set for him. Not as a blanket statement that we should accept every man-made law the government lays down.
It’s true that we need to fund police, firefighters, schools and roads. I am just so appalled at the president’s blatant disregard for human life, in threatening to veto the Born Alive Infant protection act, and in supporting PP, that I think we need to convey the message that this is unacceptable.

I probably won’t withhold taxes, because I need to support my disabled husband and I couldn’t do that from jail. But there must be some way to get across to members of Congress who support evil that it’s unacceptable.
You would suggest voting. But the election is a long way off, and too many people don’t seem to have their priorities straight.
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Viki63 said:
“Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s . . .”
It seems to me that Jesus said this as a smart way to get out of the trap set for him. Not as a blanket statement that we should accept every man-made law the government lays down.
It’s true that we need to fund police, firefighters, schools and roads. I am just so appalled at the president’s blatant disregard for human life, in threatening to veto the Born Alive Infant protection act, and in supporting PP, that I think we need to convey the message that this is unacceptable.

I probably won’t withhold taxes, because I need to support my disabled husband and I couldn’t do that from jail. But there must be some way to get across to members of Congress who support evil that it’s unacceptable.
You would suggest voting. But the election is a long way off, and too many people don’t seem to have their priorities straight.
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The country is badly broken, and not just in abortion-related issues.

Some of the needed fixes – like term limits for all elective offices – are currently out of reach. But patriotism doesn’t just mean dying in a war – there has been too much of that going on since the end of the 1900s – but working for improvements that may take years to achieve.

As far as taxes are concerned, not only is it our duty to support the society as long as our physical body remains within it, but tax evasion isn’t a useful protest. You’d lose your freedom, but the Government wouldn’t even feel it.

ICXC NIKA
 
DaveBj said:
It would be interesting to do the math, find out what percentage of the Fed goes to PPH, and then apply that percentage to one’s own taxes. If one paid, for example $2k in federal taxes, I’d be surprised if PPH’s cut were more than a quarter. Granted, that’s a quarter too much, but there’s not a lot we can do about that, given the current administration.
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i found a link somewhere—if i can find it again, i will post it…

over the last 10 years, $442 dollars of my paid taxes when to planned parenthood.

its been months since i used the link-- and will post it when i find it

edit: this isn’t what i used before, but here is one link

foxnews.com/tax-calculator/2015/07/24/government-funding-planned-parenthood-10-years
 
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