Women: is it important to marry a man who can be bread-winner?

[savienu]

I believe the BEST thing for children is to have BOTH parents home. Having a SAHM and a dad you only see an hour a day or so before bed can by no means be the IDEAL. The IDEAL is for kids to have both parents present at all/most times.

This, of course, is not possible in most situations families find themselves in in today’s world, so they discover the next best thing FOR THEM. For some, it’s a SAHM/WOHD or a WOHM/SAHD deal. For some, it’s both parents working in opposite shifts or part time. For some, it’s both parents working full time. We are all individuals and individual families trying to cope in a non-ideal world. To say that ONE way of coping is the only “MORAL” one is absurd.

What about a father who is working longer hours than is absolutely necessary to feed his family? Or staying at a stimulating, well-paid, high-status job with long hours, when he could easily find one that might be boring and less paid, but he could still feed his family AND see more of them? Why don’t those same “people” have a problem with that? After all, he’s NOT putting his children first, is he? And just because of his vanity etc., not because it’s absolutely necessary. But those same people that judge working moms often congratulate successful dads.

It just makes no sense.

I didn’t say it was the only moral way. I said I think that’s why people think that way. I didn’t even say that I agreed with it.

I understand how important Dads are too. If my DH went out and got a second job, I’d be able to be home. But if he did that, he’d never see the children, and that wouldn’t be good either. So, for now, we both work full time, opposite shifts, outside the home. But it is by no means ideal. We are long past the days of the father’s work being right close to the home, and the mother working in the home. Therefore, I still think the best situation (note, I didn’t say only MORAL situation) is for the mother to be home with the children while the father works to support the family.

 

[Litcrit]

I didn’t say it was the only moral way. I said I think that’s why people think that way. I didn’t even say that I agreed with it.

I understand how important Dads are too. If my DH went out and got a second job, I’d be able to be home. But if he did that, he’d never see the children, and that wouldn’t be good either. So, for now, we both work full time, opposite shifts, outside the home. But it is by no means ideal. We are long past the days of the father’s work being right close to the home, and the mother working in the home. Therefore, I still think the best situation (note, I didn’t say only MORAL situation) is for the mother to be home with the children while the father works to support the family.

Sorry, Savienu, I didn’t mean to imply that you were saying that being a SAHM is the only “moral” option, but it seemed this way because I was trying to also go back to Whatevergirl’s comment on how this issue unnecessarily became a religious and moral one, but I only quoted your post, and not hers… I still can’t figure out “multiquote”

I’d say your situation is a version of the best possible, if it’s what’s right for your family at this time, and it sure sounds that way.

 

[whatevergirl]

I didn’t say it was the only moral way. I said I think that’s why people think that way. I didn’t even say that I agreed with it.

I understand how important Dads are too. If my DH went out and got a second job, I’d be able to be home. But if he did that, he’d never see the children, and that wouldn’t be good either. So, for now, we both work full time, opposite shifts, outside the home. But it is by no means ideal. We are long past the days of the father’s work being right close to the home, and the mother working in the home. Therefore, I still think the best situation (note, I didn’t say only MORAL situation) is for the mother to be home with the children while the father works to support the family.

We live in some very different times. But, God in His infinite wisdom, provides each family with what they need to make their households work best. My dh works at a local Disney office, but even so, the hours are way bizarre, especially in mgmt…but the nice thing is he has off during the week, and the kids get to do fun things with him, but as a family, our time together has lessened. I am a pretty independent person, but I do miss time with him. He used to be able to post on these boards, too…he is looking forward to September as his schedule should become more reasonable.

Our ancestors had a tough go of things…we are actually quite a spoiled society, now…but, we have it tough in a different way.

 

[Litcrit]

God in His infinite wisdom, provides each family with what they need to make their households work best.

I completely agree with this! Thank you!

Here is our situation: Both dh and I have been fortunate to stay home with our 17mo dd. I receive a scholarship as a grad student, and he makes a bit on the side playing in a club band (at night, when dd is asleep). This is beautiful, but when I get my degree this fall, I will no longer receive the scholarship.

I have been offered to teach at a university (5 mins walking from our apt.) 5 hours a week for a salary that could actually feed us all (this is a rarity in my country). I’ll get a year of maternity leave for each subsequent child we have. Dh is thrilled at this prospect. He is a high school graduate, and probably couldn’t even get a job, and if he did, it would be at a construction site, all day long, for peanuts, and we’d never see him.

He is a patient, easy-going homebody that gets irritated if he has to leave the TV and computer for too long. He is great with dd and she adores him. I, OTOH, get CRAZY if I don’t go out there and DO something in the REAL world (I know it’s a silly way to feel, but that’s just how I am). I’m a much better mom after I’ve left dd for a couple of hours to do research or meet my mentor or just run ‘serious’ errands that involve adults. I don’t need ‘me’ time or drinking coffee with friends or anything of the sort, I need to be DOING serious thing in the adult world.

So, of course, I’ll accept the job and it will makes us all the happiest we as an individual family could possibly be, with our individual characters and talents.

But when I read threads like this one, I feel judged because there is this assumption that I, a woman, should be a nurturer and thus a SAHM, while my dh, as a man, should be a provider and work. I get this feeling that we should both somehow feel like failures because we’re both more capable of doing what the other sex ‘should’ be doing and happier doing it.

That’s why I get emotional over this stuff. I believe 3GirlsRUs mentioned feeling the same way, and her family situation sounds just great to me. Girls need their dads.

 

[anna1978]

Therefore, if a woman chooses to marry a man who isn’t financially robust, they should both be unselfish enough to remain childless, & indeed consider it a blessing.

If a Catholic man and a Catholic woman get married they promise to accept the children born out of that union…You’re saying poor people should not have children, that is NOT in line with the Catholic teachings. They may prayerfully decide to use NFP with good reason, but ‘living in a highrise building apartment on a welfare block’ really doesn’t seem to fit the bill to use NFP to avoid pregnancies FOREVER…
Sorry, but you just sound bitter because you had a deprived childhood, that may have coloured your views quite a bit.

 

[anna1978]

What is a towerblock and a housing estate ? Elephant & Castle sounds like a fun game . But , it isn’t ??

Elephant & Castle is a very deprived area in London (with lots of people on welfare living in welfare-maintained apartments), a towerblock is a highrise apartment block, and a housing estate is an area of welfare-maintained/government-built accommodation for the poorest sections in society, such as low-income families and single-parent families. In Britain housing estates are quite common and in my current hometown of Carlisle, they are in every neighbourhood and upto 50% of the population live in houses on a housing estate. Which was my point with Michael: you’d say to 50% of the population ‘Don’t procreate, you’re too poor to have children!’

 

[DL82]

What is a towerblock and a housing estate ? Elephant & Castle sounds like a fun game . But , it isn’t ??

Think what in the US would be called a ‘housing project’ or a ghetto.

To be honest though, I lived in Elephant & Castle for 2 years, and it’s really not that bad an area, though I understand it was worse 20 years ago.

In my honest opinion, I’d rather my kids grew up in a poorer area (not a ghetto) where they would meet different kinds of people and learn to deal with the problems of the real world, than enclosed in some leafy suburb where they never had to interact with anyone who wasn’t white and middle-class.

 

[bunnynessuk]

To be honest i dont need my h2b to be the sole breadwinner in middleclass homes in the UK its not the norm for the woman to stay at home permanantly I think most do for upto 6mths but not much longer and I cant see me being any differnt,

Im a tax accountant and I enjoy (love!) my job I am blessed with the flexibility of home working and kid-friendly hours if I need them.

My h2b is actually wanting to stay at home if he can (i call it laziness on his behalf! - im sure he thinks its going to be days of playstation and sleeping in and I dont think he realises the work he will need to do cleaning, cooking looking after kids etc Im sure he’ll change his mind when he does!)

Our plan is really to both work and hire a nanny, if all goes to plan Im setting up my own firm with a girl friend and we will probably put a nursery in to enable us to work around our future families.

So all in all no I dont need my h2b to be the sole breadwinner!

 

[sanctamaria17]

I could very easily end up living in Europe myself, since I’m obtaining dual-citizenship with Italy, and honestly, even though I don’t agree with a lot of European politics, I think some of them are much more pro-family than here in the US. If you’re working 5-8 hour days, only pay for health care with taxes, and get a year’s paid maternity leave, that’s pretty cool in my book. Also, I know at least Italians are very family oriented and grandparents and such are extremely active in the lives of children. It’s better than 12 weeks unpaid leave, nine or ten hours of daycare, fathers who are absent because they have to work so much, etc. It allows parents to focus on work instead of other stresses and to concentrate more on the raising of their family.

And yes, sometimes it’s better for a father to stay at home with children than the mother. Nowhere in Church doctrine does it teach that women “must be” stay at home moms or that men “can’t” be nurturers. What is the goal of marriage and family? To be a reflection of the Trinity and also to bring each other to Heaven. Women staying at home and men bringing in the bacon may be part of it, they may not be.

 

[whatevergirl]

I completely agree with this! Thank you!

Here is our situation: Both dh and I have been fortunate to stay home with our 17mo dd. I receive a scholarship as a grad student, and he makes a bit on the side playing in a club band (at night, when dd is asleep). This is beautiful, but when I get my degree this fall, I will no longer receive the scholarship.

I have been offered to teach at a university (5 mins walking from our apt.) 5 hours a week for a salary that could actually feed us all (this is a rarity in my country). I’ll get a year of maternity leave for each subsequent child we have. Dh is thrilled at this prospect. He is a high school graduate, and probably couldn’t even get a job, and if he did, it would be at a construction site, all day long, for peanuts, and we’d never see him.

He is a patient, easy-going homebody that gets irritated if he has to leave the TV and computer for too long. He is great with dd and she adores him. I, OTOH, get CRAZY if I don’t go out there and DO something in the REAL world (I know it’s a silly way to feel, but that’s just how I am). I’m a much better mom after I’ve left dd for a couple of hours to do research or meet my mentor or just run ‘serious’ errands that involve adults. I don’t need ‘me’ time or drinking coffee with friends or anything of the sort, I need to be DOING serious thing in the adult world.

So, of course, I’ll accept the job and it will makes us all the happiest we as an individual family could possibly be, with our individual characters and talents.

But when I read threads like this one, I feel judged because there is this assumption that I, a woman, should be a nurturer and thus a SAHM, while my dh, as a man, should be a provider and work. I get this feeling that we should both somehow feel like failures because we’re both more capable of doing what the other sex ‘should’ be doing and happier doing it.

That’s why I get emotional over this stuff. I believe 3GirlsRUs mentioned feeling the same way, and her family situation sounds just great to me. Girls need their dads.

Couldn’t agree more–I think that when we arrive before God’s judgement someday, He will not ask us what we did for a living, or if we worked out of the home, etc…He will ask us how much did we love? Did we do all that we could to mirror His Son, and did we honor Him? If we are putting God and His kingdom before all else, He will resolve the details of this life for us. We think too much about what others think of us in this world. God’s opinion is all that matters, and if we are truly honoring and following Him, the details will work out. I think the ideal is to have equal time from both parents…it’s also the quality of time, not the quantity. Just stay close to Christ, and He will direct your next move, as it relates to your children…and He won’t steer you wrong.

 

[ghaybyers1]

I have told my dd to marry a man on equal footing with her–that is how I look at it. She should seek out someone first and foremost who loves God, and her above all else, and wants to be a good husband to her–but she should seek someone who seems responsible, and is capable of earning a good living. She is seeking this for herself, she shouldn’t seek someone she has to support. That might sound sexist/harsh, but it’s the way I feel about that. I also tell my son the same thing–to seek a woman who isn’t just interested in a man taking care of her. It’s important to find a woman who loves him for him, and not for what he can do for her. I don’t want him to be working three jobs, and never seeing his kids some day, either…so, hopefully, they will find that perfect balance, but life is not perfect, and we all must rely on God every day, to take care of the details.

Oh, how I wish my mom had mentioned that to me in her “make sure you can always support yourself, no matter what” speech.

My ex wanted to be a SAHD solely because he hadn’t found a job he liked- and he wasn’t interested in going to school to gain higher education in order to find one he did like. I even went so far as to offer to pay his tuition- and he said no. Why? Because he believed the stay-at-home “lifestyle” better suited him- but his interpretation of SAH parents was completely skewed. He was so drawn to it because he thought it would give him time to “pursue his hobbies and interests freely”. His idea was that we’d actively grow our family immediately and I would go to work a month after the birth of our child. Any dissent I expressed… was immediately met with anger and accusations of my being “out for the money”.

Clearly. I’m a not-for-profit worker. Thank the Lord I saw my former fiance’s character traits that made us incompatible in time!

Anyway, I voted for important but not most important (it’s nice but not necessary). And I say this because I loooove children and can’t even imagine how it would make me feel to have to leave them day in and day out. However, in our current market conditions, it would be expecting to marry the extremely wealthy to expect to have a husband who was the sole breadwinner. I would never make money so high on my spouse choosing priorities list that only the rich need apply!

 

[Naomi]

Think what in the US would be called a ‘housing project’ or a ghetto.

To be honest though, I lived in Elephant & Castle for 2 years, and it’s really not that bad an area, though I understand it was worse 20 years ago.

In my honest opinion, I’d rather my kids grew up in a poorer area (not a ghetto) where they would meet different kinds of people and learn to deal with the problems of the real world, than enclosed in some leafy suburb where they never had to interact with anyone who wasn’t white and middle-class.

This is the problem that we are facing . We use to live in a quiet rural area . But now new people are moving in and building huge monuments to themselves. My kids have a hard time understanding that for us lacking 6 t.v.'s isn’t about our tight budget but about our values . In a lot of ways our neighborohood is going down hill .

 

[whatevergirl]

This is the problem that we are facing . We use to live in a quiet rural area . But now new people are moving in and building huge monuments to themselves. My kids have a hard time understanding that for us lacking 6 t.v.'s isn’t about our tight budget but about our values . In a lot of ways our neighborohood is going down hill .

Excellent point!

 

[MichaelMurphy]

If a Catholic man and a Catholic woman get married they promise to accept the children born out of that union…You’re saying poor people should not have children, that is NOT in line with the Catholic teachings. They may prayerfully decide to use NFP with good reason, but ‘living in a highrise building apartment on a welfare block’ really doesn’t seem to fit the bill to use NFP to avoid pregnancies FOREVER…
Sorry, but you just sound bitter because you had a deprived childhood, that may have coloured your views quite a bit.

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Bitter? I’m bitter because there are ‘Catholics’ like you.

 

[Happysoul123]

This depends greatly on the couple. I read many of the posts and have personally lived both sides. I have been the breadwinner. When I married my first husband, he was the breadwinner, but eventually I out earned him. He eventually had an affair with a woman that would become his new wife. They lived high on the hog from the divorce settlement until they ended up dirt broke. A friend of mine said to me, well he is probably not happier in the sense that he is broke, and no one wants to be broke, but at least he can feel like a man around her because she needs him. I am sorry if my ability to be successful made him feel inadequate, but I hate this feeling that I have to be embarrassed or apologetic about my success or ambition. I out earn my new husband too, and probably will most men I meet, but here the problem, when I am home, I am very much a wife. I do resent this by the way. I resent that based on the traditional approach, if I want things in life, including to the Church and to Catholic Charities, I have to marry someone that can provide them. Well, if I can provide for myself, I can marry anyone I want, not be after a “good catch.” However, I do resent this. I wish the man could provide for me, as well as I can for myself. It’s not like I would not want to sit back and let him do all the heavy financial lifting. I would LOVE it. But, It makes me feel this “damn if I do” and “damed if I don’t” dread. Because there is no winning. YOu are either dependent on the man, or you are apologetic and resentful for being the breadwinner.

 

[Sharen]

We didn’t plan on having children. God had other plans. I never thought I’d be a stay-at-home mom, but when it was time to go back to work after the birth of my first son, I couldn’t bear to do it. I’m grateful that my husband is a good provider and that I was able to choose to stay home to raise our children. Fortunately, we had a modest home that we could afford on one income. I have an advanced degree, so if I ever “have” to go back to work, I have that option. Children are little for such a short time and I’m so glad I’m not missing out. I would not have married a man who was not financially independent and responsible.

 

[EasterJoy]

Just a poll for the ladies please. Is it essential to you that your husband is able to earn enough to support you and your family, so that you can stay at home and be a full-time mother?

It is a dilemma I’ve struggled with as a young single man. Here in the UK, it seems almost impossible to support a family on one income unless you do the kind of job where you have to sell out your morals (cut-throat financial trading) or where you have no time to spend with family.

As someone who’s on course for a career either in academia or politics, I don’t expect to be able to do that any time soon. Do I need to decide between giving up on marriage or changing my career goals?

It is important that people who consider themselves ready for marriage are ready to do what their families need them to do, within their ability to do it. You and I are only one misfortune away from being unable to earn an income outside the home. Any of us, too, may find as a couple that the family has goals–which could include making a difference in politics or accepting a teaching position instead of a higher-paying job in the private sector–that make it impossible for either of the spouses to avoid earning an income outside the home if he and/or she wanted to.

These are things that couples work out, considering the needs of the whole family and the contribution the family is to make to the greater world as one piece. Sometimes that means that the family does not see a parent often enough because that parent has a gift as a surgeon or an obstetrician. No matter what a couple “decides they want”, though, that is just a goal. There are no guarantees. You take what comes together; that is what children need most. A wise person, male or female, chooses a spouse who has the character to do whatever they can and must do in order to fulfill what life demands of the couple, the family, and others the couple are called upon to serve, sometimes even up to the nation.

Still, it is OK to say up front, “I couldn’t marry you, because you’re a chef and the hours will drive me crazy” or “It wouldn’t work out if we marry, because you are not going to be happy unless you spend lots of time with your family, and quite frankly they drive me nuts.” You have to be honest about your own capacity, and not pretend you are some ideally sacrificial person that you are not just because you’ve met a great person who is going to make someone (just not you) a great spouse!

 

[Musician]

It was certainly in my thoughts as I was dating! I chose my husband at age twenty not only because I was madly in love with him but also because I knew he would take care of our family. I am so glad I could stay with our children at home. I wouldn’t take anything for it.

 

[maryjk]

The thread is from '08.

I hope DL82 has figured out what to do with his education.

 

[TC2]

I didn’t answer the poll as I’m not Catholic.
But I will answer here.

I didn’t choose Dh based on his income. Indeed, when I met him he was on SSI/Disability and working a bit at his father’s business for extra money. Over the years, with my encouragement and support, he came off the SSI and now has a job he’s held for 14 years, making $20 an hour. Not bad for no college degree around here.

We didn’t start off our marriage with thoughts of my staying home, we didn’t want kids right away, so it wasn’t an issue we spoke of much. When we did try for kids, infertility gave us a mighty setback.

Also, I had gotten let go from my job, and that’s when we tried to get pregnant the first time. So I was a stay at home wife then, focusing on that. I ‘think’ we’d originally planned that I’d stay home til the baby went to school at 5, then I’d go back to work.

But after the IF, I think it was all the years of pain and struggle through this that led us to the decision for me to stay home and homeschool. We’d fought so hard and long and prayed so fervently for this child that we really just came to see that for us, this was the best decision, b/c he was going to be our only.

He is our only child 5 years later, and we don’t regret my staying home and homeschooling. That said, if finances get too tight (and they are tight/hard now), then I may have to return to work and he to public school. Whatever and wherever the Lord leads is right and good.