women not allowed to distribute the Precious Body?

[PRmerger]

Well, then they would think that all Catholic Clergy dress like girls… But they are not dresses, they are linen robes and they don’t all have lace.

Could you address what your response would be to a boy who doesn’t want to serve because he views the albs as being too girly?

My guess is that you would NOT attempt to remove the girly attire. Rather, you would try to change your son’s POV.

Why not do the same with boys who don’t want to serve with girls?

 

[PRmerger]

Something I have noticed in society:

It is a negative notion; Girly
It is a positive notion; not Girly–> Boyish +

Yep. Sad.

My new favorite meme:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd....94a27d6e52cd7e86c758efd3e1b0054a&oe=54854630&gda=1418205654_671d912ce29dcec3187294c633e8cd2e

 

[Lapey]

Could you address what your response would be to a boy who doesn’t want to serve because he views the albs as being too girly?

My guess is that you would NOT attempt to remove the girly attire. Rather, you would try to change your son’s POV.

Why not do the same with boys who don’t want to serve with girls?

In all my years of serving at the altar, with boys and girls, I have never heard this to be an issue for anyone.

If a young man uses this excuse to not serve he didn’t want to serve in the first place. Bottom line is it is the pastor’s right to allow female altar servers or not. It is not our right to judge the priest for exercising his right. The Church allows certain things to be at the discretion of the pastor, and others to the bishop; none to the laity.

Now back to the subject of this thread. It was shown quite a while back in this thread that the OP did not have the entire story. There were many facts missing; and those same facts are still missing.

 

[PRmerger]

In all my years of serving at the altar, with boys and girls, I have never heard this to be an issue for anyone.

This is irrelevant, insofar as this is a discussion.

Even if it is merely hypothetical, the point still stands: if we wouldn’t try to change the attire that altar boys wear, in order to induce them to be more attracted to serving

then why try to get girls out of the service of the altar because of the boys (misplaced) perceptions?

If a young man uses this excuse to not serve he didn’t want to serve in the first place. Bottom line is it is the pastor’s right to allow female altar servers or not. It is not our right to judge the priest for exercising his right. The Church allows certain things to be at the discretion of the pastor, and others to the bishop; none to the laity.

Now back to the subject of this thread. It was shown quite a while back in this thread that the OP did not have the entire story. There were many facts missing; and those same facts are still missing.

Also irrelevant.

I was discussing an argument that was brought up that is absurd. I want to clearly and concisely eliminate this argument as a reason why girls shouldn’t serve: “Because boys won’t want to serve if girls serve!”

That is the most ree-DAHNK-u-lous position to espouse.

 

[thistle]

Here in the Philippines females are NOT permitted to be EMHC’s or altar servers.
They are ushers, readers, and announcers.

 

[Lapey]

This is irrelevant, insofar as this is a discussion.

Even if it is merely hypothetical, the point still stands: if we wouldn’t try to change the attire that altar boys wear, in order to induce them to be more attracted to serving

then why try to get girls out of the service of the altar because of the boys (misplaced) perceptions?

Also irrelevant.

I was discussing an argument that was brought up that is absurd. I want to clearly and concisely eliminate this argument as a reason why girls shouldn’t serve: “Because boys won’t want to serve if girls serve!”

That is the most ree-DAHNK-u-lous position to espouse.

Your opinions can be seen as irrelevant, because they are completely your opinions. Do the research, over the years since female altar servers have been permitted the number of boys serving, as a whole, is considerably lower. Is it the vestments? No, that was my only point.

I do not think anyone was trying to get the girls out of serving, but with that said it is completely the pastor’s right to do just that. It is the laity’s right to change parishes or accept the decision.

The most ridiculous position to take is one that is built on opinion and not fact. It is fact that in the “old days” boys were encouraged to be altar servers and it was in fact a lead into minor seminary and therefore a precursor to major seminary and then ordination. That is fact that you cannot change with your opinion.

Many things have changed, for the most part there are no more “minor seminaries”; high school seminaries. Also there is much less emphasis on the work to be done around the altar as sacred work. The role of altar servers unfortunately has been reduced to mere tasks. Tasks that can be done with a simple evening of training then show up and put an alb on and now you’re part of the Mass looking “pretty” next to Father. That goes for both sexes.

Is the presence of girls on the altar the reason there are fewer boys and therefore fewer priests? No, not completely. Is it a factor, even though small? Yes, it is. I don’t really care if you agree, it is fact.

 

[PRmerger]

Is the presence of girls on the altar the reason there are fewer boys and therefore fewer priests? No, not completely. Is it a factor, even though small? Yes, it is. I don’t really care if you agree, it is fact.

I haven’t disputed the fact that girls serving is a factor in the decreased number of boys serving.

I am saying that it’s an absurd reason to tell girls that they ought not serve.

Absurd.

I suggest we teach our boys to change their way of thinking.

Just like we wouldn’t tell our boys, “Ok, son. I’ll try to get the dressy-alb thing changed. I just want you to want to serve!”

Rather, we would steer our sons to think correctly about the attire.

Similarly, we ought to steer our sons to think correctly about girls.

 

[Tigg]

Oh, dear.

Out of all the arguments for male-only altar servers, this is the one that is the most absurd. Most absurd.

The solution to this is NOT to say, “Hey, girls! Don’t serve because the boys won’t want to!”

Rather, the solution is to teach our boys to have respect for girls, and girls wanting to do something ought not make something scornful to them.

Psychologists have spoken of a certain period of time in child development when gender needs to be expressed, in fact much has been written about the difficulties of boys to assert their masculinity ( especially in this day and age.) I can remember once when our youngest son (many years ago) had friends over to play one afternoon, and the consensus seemed to be they all thought the girls had “cooties.” (Meaning, of course, they did not want to be around them.) Same with the girls when they reach a certain stage that they simply prefer to associate with other girls and play “dress up.” This is normal and healthy, at least in traditional families, and short-lived. We made no big deal of it at the time and our sons grew up to be completely respectful of the opposite sex.

**Getting back to the topic of this thread **(sorry OP) I didn’t mean to derail it. I have never spoken with our pastor as to his reasons he will not allow women to distribute the Precious Body. I can speculate that it has to do with my answer in Post #148 but I don’t really know and it is his choice. We women obey without complaining (and corny as it sounds, we really do believe we are obeying God) likewise we do not feel threatened or assign sinister reasons for his actions. Regarding female EMHC’s, he also has a dress code. If you show up in the sacristy wearing a low top that he considers reveals too much skin and is immodest, you will be sent to the pews without serving that day.

 

[PRmerger]

Psychologists have spoken of a certain period of time in child development when gender needs to be expressed, in fact much has been written about the difficulties of boys to assert their masculinity ( especially in this day and age.) I can remember once when our youngest son (many years ago) had friends over to play one afternoon, and the consensus seemed to be they all thought the girls had “cooties.” (Meaning, of course, they did not want to be around them.) Same with the girls when they reach a certain stage that they simply prefer to associate with other girls and play “dress up.” This is normal and healthy, at least in traditional families, and short-lived. We made no big deal of it at the time and our sons grew up to be completely respectful of the opposite sex.

I agree with everything you say.

Which is why you ought to “make no big deal” of boys not wanting to serve because girls do.

You should shrug your shoulders and tell your son, “I still signed you up to be an altar server.”

 

[Tigg]

I agree with everything you say.

Which is why you ought to “make no big deal” of boys not wanting to serve because girls do.

You should shrug your shoulders and tell your son, “I still signed you up to be an altar server.”

It is not my call…it is the pastors. OTOH, I personally tend to agree with him given the convincing documentation that has been done to illustrate the organized movement for feminizing the Church. But that is for another thread and I will not speak of it again here.

 

[PRmerger]

It is not my call…it is the pastors.

It is your call, if you are a parent of a boy who doesn’t want to serve because girls do.

It is your job not to confirm him in this absurdity.

Just like what you would do if your son said the reason he didn’t want to serve was because he didn’t like the girly albs.

I wonder, what would be your response to your son if he were to say that?

(Please don’t distract with irrelevant comments such as, “My sons are grown now”. Just consider the hypothetical on its own merits, as an exercise in discussion. Imagine how you would respond to your son,** if** you had a son,** if **he were to propose “I don’t want to serve because I look like a girl in that alb!”.)