Women on the Alter

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I am confident this has been discussed here in the past but since I am new please direct me to the discussion on this or explain: What is THEE WORD on women on the alter? Is it just tolerated? Is it forbidden? It is approved but some people can’t get with the times?
 
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MJE:
I am confident this has been discussed here in the past but since I am new please direct me to the discussion on this or explain: What is THEE WORD on women on the alter? Is it just tolerated? Is it forbidden? It is approved but some people can’t get with the times?
EVERY position women have in the liturgy started as an abuse! Now the “norm” includes lector, Extraordinary Ministers, and some altar servers. In some parishes even pastorial assistants, where only some are “necessary” due to the unavailibilty of a priest/pastor. IMNSHO, many, even those who are nuns (out of habit) are simply priest-wannabes. Who is to blame??? It starts with a shortage of discipline at the top, then a lack of knowledge and backbone by some bishops, and then to pastors who were rushed through the seminary with no background in many of these critical areas. Pray for our priests!

MrS
 
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MrS:
EVERY position women have in the liturgy started as an abuse! Now the “norm” includes lector, Extraordinary Ministers, and some altar servers. In some parishes even pastorial assistants, where only some are “necessary” due to the unavailibilty of a priest/pastor. IMNSHO, many, even those who are nuns (out of habit) are simply priest-wannabes. Who is to blame??? It starts with a shortage of discipline at the top, then a lack of knowledge and backbone by some bishops, and then to pastors who were rushed through the seminary with no background in many of these critical areas. Pray for our priests!

MrS
Good Post!
I would add though, woman can’t be blamed for this alone.The men and boys are just not coming forward as they should. So, women, who are willing to serve,(seems to be in our nature) and BTW,not a bad thing either…look at St. Martha… are coming forward. My only objection is that there should be a balance and I don’t have any suggestions how to remedy this at this point in time. We are just going to have to wait for those "new young priests"who are hopefully being properly trained to be ordained!
And again, Pray for our priests & vocations! Annunciata:)
 
From the Code of Canon Law:

Can. 230. sec. 1. Lay men Viri laici] who possess the age and qualifications established by decree of the conference of bishops can be admitted on a stable basis through the prescribed liturgical rite to the ministries of lector and acolyte. Nevertheless, the conferral of these ministries does not grant them the right to obtain support or remuneration from the Church.
Code:
 sec. 2. Lay persons *Laici*] can fulfill the function of lector in liturgical actions by temporary designation. All lay persons *Omnes laici*] can also perform the functions of commentator or cantor, or other functions, according to the norm of law.

 sec. 3. When the need of the Church warrants it and ministers are lacking, lay persons *laici*], even if they are not lectors or acolytes, can also supply certain of their duties, namely, to exercise the ministry of the word, to preside over liturgical prayers, to confer baptism, and to distribute Holy Communion, according to the precepts of the law.
Can. 910, sec. 2. The extraordinary minister of holy communion is an acolyte or another member of the Christian faithful designated according to the norm of can. 230, sec. 3.
Code:
 So women, as lay persons, can serve in the above capacities according to the norm or precepts of the law, but cannot become a duly instituted lector or acolyte.
-Illini
 
I completely understand why women are unable to be ordained as priests… But I do not understand why women seem to be discouraged by the General Instruction to be lectors or altar servers, etc.
 
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Illini:
From the Code of Canon Law:

Can. 230. sec. 1. Lay men Viri laici] who possess the age and qualifications established by decree of the conference of bishops can be admitted on a stable basis through the prescribed liturgical rite to the ministries of lector and acolyte. Nevertheless, the conferral of these ministries does not grant them the right to obtain support or remuneration from the Church.

sec. 2. Lay persons Laici] can fulfill the function of lector in liturgical actions by temporary designation. All lay persons Omnes laici] can also perform the functions of commentator or cantor, or other functions, according to the norm of law.

sec. 3. When the need of the Church warrants it and ministers are lacking, lay persons laici], even if they are not lectors or acolytes, can also supply certain of their duties, namely, to exercise the ministry of the word, to preside over liturgical prayers, to confer baptism, and to distribute Holy Communion, according to the precepts of the law.

Can. 910, sec. 2. The extraordinary minister of holy communion is an acolyte or another member of the Christian faithful designated according to the norm of can. 230, sec. 3.

So women, as lay persons, can serve in the above capacities according to the norm or precepts of the law, but cannot become a duly instituted lector or acolyte.

-Illini
Your citation does prove that women can perform these functions. But I think the beef a lot of people have with it is that the canon allowing it also states that they are meant to do so only by “temporary designation.” I know most of the women at my church who perform liturgical functions have been doing so for many, many years. This doesn’t seem all that temporary to me. (The same criticism applies, of course, to the men who are permanent fixtures but not actually liturgically admitted acolytes or lectors.) It’s another example of the “Spirit of Vatican II” taking a mile when it was given an inch.
 
Agreed. But that horse has left the barn. Also, many places have a genuine need for EMHC’s, especially where communion is distributed under both kinds. And the Church prefers that someone other than the presiding priest (I refuse to say simply “presider”) proclaim the non-gospel readings.
Code:
 Having said all that, it is wrong to have lay persons, be they women or men, serving in roles not set up for them, especially where either they or the faithful confuse those roles with those of an ordained man. And they must always treat the Mass, especially the Eucharist, with profound respect and reverence. The lay readers and EMHC's in our parish generally do that. Apparently that is not done in many other places.
-Illini
 
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MJE:
I am confident this has been discussed here in the past but since I am new please direct me to the discussion on this or explain: What is THEE WORD on women on the alter? Is it just tolerated? Is it forbidden? It is approved but some people can’t get with the times?
No one should ever be allowed on the Altar! I could not resist. Any way, the Document issued a few years ago specifically addressing the distinction between the Lay Minister and the Ordained as well as this latest document discussion the difference of roles between men and women may be of some help.
 
As I was falling asleep last night I realized I spelled ALTAR incorrectly. And Bro. Rich, that was my first thought as I was phrasing the question. I think Gen. Instructions are so general sometimes they are open to misinterpretation, intentional or otherwise, and confusion. So sometimes women around the Altar is OK and sometimes not?
 
I’ve been around for a while, I am 73. When I first read the original post I though I read…Women behind the Alter Rail.

I much prefer the Tridentine Latin Mass. Of course I prefer Alter Boys or a Deacon to assist the priest at Mass.

But from time to time, I bite my tongue and avert my eyes from what I don’t like to see. If having women lectors and Communion Servers is acceptable today…are we saying the Holy Mother Church was wrong for 2000 years?:rolleyes:
 
I’ve been around for a while, I am 73. When I first read the original post I though I read…Women behind the Alter Rail.

I much prefer the Tridentine Latin Mass. Of course I prefer Alter Boys or a Deacon to assist the priest at Mass.

But from time to time, I bite my tongue and avert my eyes from what I don’t like to see. If having women lectors and Communion Servers is acceptable today…are we saying the Holy Mother Church was wrong for 2000 years?:rolleyes:
 
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MrS:
EVERY position women have in the liturgy started as an abuse! Now the “norm” includes lector, Extraordinary Ministers, and some altar servers.
Okay, I’ll bite. How did female EMHCs start out as an abuse?
 
I was an altar server for several years, won 2 Serra awards for it…sang during Mass in the Youth Choir near the priest’s chair…became an EME as soon as I could…and went to a college where women could not serve except as communion ministers and lectors.
 
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Exporter:
If having women lectors and Communion Servers is acceptable today…are we saying the Holy Mother Church was wrong for 2000 years?:rolleyes:
Of course not. The church can, and sometimes must change matters of discipline. Most of the liturgical practices are disciplines.

The early church had deaconesses (not to be confused with the ordained role of deacon).

When I first saw this title, I pictured some women stretched across the altar as part of some liturgcal dance. (Maybe I shouldn’t have given the dancers a new idea.)
 
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coralewis:
I was an altar server for several years, won 2 Serra awards for it…sang during Mass in the Youth Choir near the priest’s chair…became an EME as soon as I could…and went to a college where women could not serve except as communion ministers and lectors.
Sorry, but there’s no such thing as an EME, nor a female lector.

There are extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion (read Redemptionis Sacramentum) and there are female readers.

A minister of the Eucharist is one who confects the Eucharist, which would only be an ordained priest.

An ordinary minister of Holy Communion is a deacon or a priest.

An extraordinary minister of Holy Communion may be a member of the laity, male or female.

Lectors are always male; females may serve as readers.
 
Panis,

You stated “Lectors are always male; females may serve as readers.”

The following comes from Merriam-Webster:
Main Entry: lec·tor
Pronunciation: 'lek-t&r, -"tor
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin, reader of the lessons in a church service, from Latin, reader, from legere
: one who assists at a worship service chiefly by reading a lesson.

This is from the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy Sacrosanctum Concilium, 28; Code of Canon Law, Can. 230 2 that states: “lay persons can fulfill the function of Lector during the liturgical actions by temporary deputation; likewise all lay persons can fulfill the functions of commentator or cantor or other functions, in accord with the norm of law.”

Part of the confusion about roles for women in liturgical ministry is that in the past both Lectors and Acolytes were actually “minor orders”. Both required ordination, so the laity could not perform these functions. In recent times the minor orders were abolished, and the role of Lector was open to lay men. Many years ago the liturgical role of altar server once performed only by ordained Acolytes came to be given to boys. More recently, permission was given to the bishops [in the Church in the United States] to allow laywomen to function as **Lector **(although nuns, especially those in cloistered convents, had earler been permitted to serve as Lectors for their convent Masses).

(All red highlights are mine.)
 
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Catholic2003:
Okay, I’ll bite. How did female EMHCs start out as an abuse?
The rubrics, or “norms” if you wish did not allow a pastor to consider or request “assistance” from non ordained laity as lectors, servers, or helpers in distributing Holy Communion.

However, perhaps thanks to the loose seminaries of the 60’s and 70", and perhaps thanks to the agendas of pastors trying to do it all without associate pastors etc., “help” was accepted as offered by individuals and by committees of lay people (liturgy, worship, etc.).

A careful misreading of Vatican II gives the laity permission to do these things. And the practice spreads. And when more orthodox Catholics questioned these new practices, a choice had to be made - usually by a bishop. (Do we have any weak, liberal, or progressive bishops in the crowd???http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon9.gif)

The "pro-choice"http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif bishops often opted for the new norm and we are obliged to be obedient. But now, thank God, we see more bishops returning to the “old” ways.

Guess that’s why God allowed me to be out of the Church for half a generation - 25 years. When He brought me back I first wondered what happened. Then Why? I still wonder on some things but I don’t just say “It’s God’s plan” Now I believe that it is God’s Plan to use me…and you… to address these things.

Thanks for asking and God Bless

MrS
 
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