Women's Orders in England

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ReginaCoeli

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Since it is sometimes hard for a woman over 40 to be accepted into religious life in this country, I am looking for information on orders in England. I know that the Church in England could really use vocations, and they do not seem to have the same issues with age that they do in the US. Does anyone have any information on orders in Great Britain? Thanks, and God Bless.
 
If it’s Church of England you’re looking for, there is at least one Episcopal order in Catonsville, MD that caps their age limit at 45. I can’t think of their name off the top of my head, but I’m sure google will find them.

Good luck in your search!
 
I’m sorry, I should’ve been more specific. I’m looking for Roman Catholic orders in England. :-)🙂
 
I am writing to several orders in the UK. These all wear the full traditional habit. Here are the ones I’m writing to and some I’m visiting soon:

ENGLISH BENEDICTINE NUNS:

Staffordshire, England, Colwich Abbey - my favorite of the English Benedictines -
colwichabbey.org.uk/ and their fantastic blog run by
their Novitiate nuns - colwichnov.wordpress.com/

London, England - Tyburn Convent - tyburnconvent.org.uk/home/index.html

ENGLISH CARMELITES:

Sheffield Carmel - carmelite.org.uk/Kirkedge.html

Wolverhampton Carmel - wolvercarmvocations.org.uk/ - writing to for a while

St. Helen’s Carmel - carmelite.org.uk/StHelens.html

POOR CLARE COLETTINES:

Glouchester PCCs - 2 sites each a bit different: poorclare.co.uk/life.html and poorclare.co.uk/index.htm
 
TeresaBenedicta said:
I am writing to several orders in the UK. These all wear the full traditional habit. Here are the ones I’m writing to and some I’m visiting soon:

ENGLISH BENEDICTINE NUNS:

Staffordshire, England, Colwich Abbey - my favorite of the English Benedictines -
colwichabbey.org.uk/ and their fantastic blog run by
their Novitiate nuns - colwichnov.wordpress.com/

London, England - Tyburn Convent - tyburnconvent.org.uk/home/index.html

ENGLISH CARMELITES:

Sheffield Carmel - carmelite.org.uk/Kirkedge.html

Wolverhampton Carmel - wolvercarmvocations.org.uk/ - writing to for a while

St. Helen’s Carmel - carmelite.org.uk/StHelens.html

POOR CLARE COLETTINES:

Glouchester PCCs - 2 sites each a bit different: poorclare.co.uk/life.html and poorclare.co.uk/index.htm
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Have you had any contact with the Carmelites in Wales? I ask because an acquaintance in the Secular Order in California joined that community many years ago - a priest of our mutual acquaintance said she was so happy there.
 
Frances,

Do I have never contacted the Carmel in Wales (at this link for people new to this Carmel carmelite.org.uk/Dolgellau.html)). It looks like a beautiful Carmel and the sisters do look happy in the pictures so I can easily imagine your friend being happy there!

MaryTherese
 
My community accepts women over 40. We are Roman Catholic Sisters, and our community is in formation (meaning we are just starting out). Six of us began in May 2006. We don’t do much in the way of advertising, since we are just renting living space and each of us is self-supporting. We have permission from the bishop of the diocese to
  • accept and form new members
  • identify ourselves as following the Franciscan charism
  • make private vows
So far, we’ve had one other woman join us, and right now (thanks to finally getting our web site more current) four are in communication with us. (By the way, we also accept women younger than 40!)
www.fsmcharism.net

Just curious, why the attraction to England? I work in an Anglican Use parish (Roman Catholic, but with permission to use elements of the Anglican liturgy) so you might like our style of worship. www.atonementonline.com
Never heard of such a thing? Go to www.pastoralprovision.org and read all about it. Basically, our beloved (late) John Paul II signed this provision in 1980, and ours was the first parish of its kind to be established.
 
I myself am a contemplative, cloistered vocation so that is where I am looking.

The attraction to England is that they have no age limits, they value, respect and I have talked to many prioresses who encourage and often prefer older vocations.

If you are a traditional vocation like myself who wants say a traditional full habited Carmel or Benedictine, etc. and you are not finding what you are called to in the states due to the age limits and if not that many orders don’t want you if you have been married or divorced, annulment or not OR grown, independent children. Some seem to consider you grudgingly and will say you won’t persevere so you have to wonder if you are doomed at the start! Or will they even help you with things as they would an older? Myself and a few other women in their 40s have actually gotten a nasty “get lost” type letter from the same monastery! Thank goodness this seems to be one place and one unChristlike sister, but you have to be in my and others in my situation “boat” to see it all.

Also the orders in England an Ireland don’t have the added expense of the psych tests, in-depth medical exams especially when some orders want lab work, chest xrays, urine analysis, etc. and as a nurse I know these are expensive with no insurance. I have also seen where orders in the US want you to have 6 months or more of paid up medical insurance, etc.

I’d say the biggest attraction to overseas is the age limit but the rest is just as important. But there are some great orders and monasteries who will consider older without the “you’ll fail” attitude. So I hope to stay stateside but if I find all these good monasteries aren’t for me and I am called elsewhere, I will go.

Mary Therese
 
Some seem to consider you grudgingly and will say you won’t persevere so you have to wonder if you are doomed at the start!
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Having entered in my forties a strictly enclosed contemplative Order I can vouch that drawing on my experience only, things can be made very tough for one indeed if one is accepted by a particular community whose leadership has grudgingly accepted one. The Mother General of the Order, whom I met was very eager indeed for me to enter and paved the way, but she resided in the Mother House and in another country to that of the community of the Order I entered.
This of course has been only my own experience.

Blessings…Barb:)
 
Myself and a few other women in their 40s have actually gotten a nasty “get lost” type letter from the same monastery! Thank goodness this seems to be one place and one unChristlike sister, but you have to be in my and others in my situation “boat” to see it all.
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Also the orders in England an Ireland don’t have the added expense of the psych tests, in-depth medical exams especially when some orders want lab work, chest xrays, urine analysis, etc. and as a nurse I know these are expensive with no insurance. I have also seen where orders in the US want you to have 6 months or more of paid up medical insurance, etc.
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I understand! It is hard for a community to protect itself from the lunatics that it tends to attract while attracting authentic vocations. Some communities use the “nasty letter” as a test, and if the person is still persistant, they might give them a try. Responding to a vocation is as difficult as it is rewarding. I have never loved anything as much or worked as hard, and it seems that when I do succeed at carrying one cross, I get to exchange it for an even bigger one! Of course, many times I fail - the first step is to recognize the cross, then carry it, then embrace it. Be prepared to fall many times. Constantly rely on God’s grace, and do not give in to the many, many temptations to compromise on your first fervor. I will pray especially for you today.
 
There are other habited Benedictines in England who probably accept ‘older’ vocations

stanbrookabbeyfriends.org/Photographs-of-Building-work

Stanbrook moved from its historic abbey and is building a new abbey at the above website.

curzonpark.org.uk/curzon02.htm–is in a full black habit

benedictinenuns.org.uk/
Holy Trinity Monastery

…is especially intriguing–three nuns starting a new monastery–I think that two are from Stanbrook.

The English Benedictines have a strong tradition of brains and scholarship and a sensible interpretation of the ancient rule. They have constitutional enclosure, can let people in for observances and can go out to church or special events, if need be. they do not seem especially penitential. One of the great advantages of following an ancient rule is that it has survived all passing fancies.
 
TeresaBenedicta said:
Frances,

Do I have never contacted the Carmel in Wales (at this link for people new to this Carmel carmelite.org.uk/Dolgellau.html)). It looks like a beautiful Carmel and the sisters do look happy in the pictures so I can easily imagine your friend being happy there!

MaryTherese
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What an absolutely beautiful setting! Thank you for the link, MaryTherese. I actually see my friend in the group picture; she’s seated second from the end on the right-hand side (as one looks at it). It’s encouraging to catch such glimpses of the Carmels around the world.
 
Hi,
I am from the UK. May I respectfully ask you a couple of questions?
Is the full habit a touch stone for you? and if so, may I ask why that is? What is it a touch stone of? What are you looking for specifically?

My understanding of vocation is that it is not the individual alone who discerns vocation, but within the church community, specifically the community she wishes to enter/has entered.

I do know that in fact very many convents in the UK will have an age limit. This is because there are many older sisters and quite simply the logistics of this means that age is a factor in accepting new people.

The same goes for medical tests. This is not about a rejection of a person, but a realistic awareness that a convent is not in a position to take on someone whose health may be a cause of difficulty to the candidate or excesive expense that the convent cannot meet. Does this seem to you to have anything to recommend it as an attitude?? It does seem to me to indicate that the sisters do not want candidates to be in a position where the sisters will not be able to provide the care they need, or the candidates will not be able to live the religious life. That does look both reasonable and charitable to me. What do you think?

I wonder if you have any ideas why previous marriage and children, including adult children, could be issues that a convent might want to explore?? Conflict of interest etc. comes to my mind. What do you think are the reasons?? As it happens, I have known personally two women both with annulled marriages, both with adult children, both of whom made solemn vows in cloistered communities - and both of whom later became extremely unhappy because of the conflicts that emerged. One left the Order, the other became a complete invalid because of the strain. So it does seem to me that there are issues there that the nuns are wise at least to consider, and perhaps would be failing in their duty if they did not.

I hope this might help you to see another side of some of the questions you are working with, and specifically to see that the religious life in the UK may not be without requirements for candidates: requirements which are in fact the insgructions of the Church to religious.

Jerry
 
I hope this might help you to see another side of some of the questions you are working with, and specifically to see that the religious life in the UK may not be without requirements for candidates: requirements which are in fact the insgructions of the Church to religious.
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Hi Jerry…I wonder if you could give me a link please to the Church document which gives instructions to religious and I am taking it that it is to do with suitable and/or unsuitable candidates for religious life or something along those lines - that type of subject at least contained within the document. I really would like to read it. Thanks heaps…Blessings and regards…Barb:)
 
Hi Barb
yes, I will do this.

Unfortunately I am at work at the moment so can’t do it now. In addition my computer is about to go back to the makers for repairs. So I may not be able to do it for a week or so - (the warranty gives a 7 day turn around for repairs, so I’m hoping…!)

Blessings
Jerry
 
Jerry_Gordon said:
Hi Barb
yes, I will do this.

Unfortunately I am at work at the moment so can’t do it now. In addition my computer is about to go back to the makers for repairs. So I may not be able to do it for a week or so - (the warranty gives a 7 day turn around for repairs, so I’m hoping…!)

Blessings
Jerry
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Thanks Jerry…there is no rush whatsoever, I know it is “in the pipeline” and am very grateful…Blessings and my regards…Barb:)
 
I have personally contacted over 5 monastic/cloistered orders (Carmels, Benedictines) in the UK and they all told me personally they have no age limit other than good health. Now there are some (like other Carmels or Benedictines or other others I spoke with that do have an age limit) and numerous Carmels and PCCs in Ireland with no age limit.

The question with age or grown kids are different for various people. I as a woman with grown kids, I have discussed this with various abbesses and prioreses here in the US, in the UK and Ireland and they have had some leave and just as many stay. I all felt that the ones who left may not have had a vocation to their order or monastery or a vocation at all. Who knows. But there have been countless women thru history up to the present time who have entered monasteries or active orders with grown kids and persevered happily and have been come saints or blesseds and very holy. EX: St. Jane de Chantal - mother of 3; Bl. Mary of Incarnation, Carmelite (Madame Acarie) - mother of 7 kids, and I have known a few who have entered and stayed and are joyful and mentally sound. It all depends on the person and whether they have a true vocation, are entering for the right reasons, work with God’s grace, etc.

And, probably, all orders require some sort of physical exam or letter from your doctor no matter what country. But there are a lot of orders in the UK and Ireland don’t require the psych exam like is required here in the USA. As a nurse who has many years in the psych field besides others and speaking with various orders, those psych tests aren’t accurate, don’t catch everything and are subject to interpretation to the psych professional doing them and if this professional is open to vocations (whether a diocese professional or not) and especially the special vocation of an older person and with grown kids.

Once in community at some point, someone who looks great in visits and on paper from a psych doctor, can come apart at the seams due to the close community when otherwise in all other circumstances be perfectly sound in mind. The the opposite is true with someone who looks iffy psych wise turns out to be a perfect match for the community. So the very many orders I spoke with overseas don’t either have or put much stock in the psych tests.

I have a Carmelite vocation and am pursuing that now so I would not enter an order who had no respect for traditition and especially for the the full traditional habit of Carmel which is the habit of Our Lady. Who could ever modify, make it ugly and worse ditch it and wear none? As for wearing a habit, especially the full habit of an order - is traditional and no reason to modify it or dump it. I figure that when St. Teresa of Avila was reforming Carmel, she could have, 1) kept the same habit the Incarnation wore where she came from, 2) said “let’s just wear secular clothes because, hey we are locked up in here so who will see?”, 3) or “let’s wear no habit and just a little pin”, 4) or “everyone can wear what they want it doesn’t matter, who cares if we have no unity or oneness”!!! Or when Jesus and Our Lady (both or one, I forget) gave St. Catherine of Siena the Dominican habit to wear - from
their own hands! - Jesus could have NOT given her a habit OR “just a little pin” or said “you don’t need to cover you hair”, etc. As an abbess of a Poor Clare Colettines monastery I visited twice said to me while we talked about the habit, “It is the greatest joy to wear our wedding gown every day! What bride wouldn’t want to, especially when the Groom was Jesus Himself?!”

Obviously, care should be in place with the traditional habit like an order in hot and humid climates like near the equator, etc. shouldn’t be wearing a wool habit! Or the head wear that St. Catherine Laboure wore is a bit strange and could have been changed to a regular soft veil, etc. But all the other excuses to change or ditch the habit don’t fly.

Can you see the military saying wear what ever you want? Imagine seeing some guys in the full Army or Marine uniform and some with the khaki t-shirt and jacket with jeans or all wearing secular clothes? Or the same for the police? Even hotel maids and bell hops wear a uniform and the same same uniform!

There are many other reasons for the full habit but this would be the longest post in history! Grace comes with the holy habit. In good orders, all parts of the habit are blessed and many orders have little prayers that are said as each part is put on and off and each part is kissed with love and devotion. Hey what fun to kiss your little pin and put on an ugly business suit type habit or wear those horrid veils that sit on the back of the head and are so short they may as well not wear any at all! As if it is a grudging token veil or something!

The above is my opinion as well as many more people that I know of and many I know personally.
 
Good points I thought, worth pondering. Re the Carmelite habit, it has always really stuck in my mind that St. Teresa of Avila wrote “whose (Our Lady) habit I unworthily wear”.

I think there is room for all in The Church “in My Father’s House there are many mansions, I go to prepare a place for you”.

If nuns wish to wear secular clothing - that’s fine. If they wish to wear a religious habit, that’s fine to me too. If they wish to form a community of members that can choose what to wear, then that is ok with me too. If nuns wish to modernize, ok. If nuns wish to return to traditional religious life as it was pre VII and with our without Latin, or even a bit of this and a bit of that, that’s ok with me too. It is never about what one wears, but who one is when one wears what one wears. I do know that “if The Lord does not build the city, in vain does the watchman keep vigil, in vain is your going to sleep early, early to rise, when He blesses His beloved as she sleeps”…what is not of God just will simply fade away.

However, I think if Rome or one’s Bishop, any validly appointed authority, makes some sort of ruling, then that is law to me…and that is fine with me too. For myself, I would only ask “How high, please”? Now that can either be me washing my hands of my responsibility and accountability and putting the burden of decision elsewhere and all that goes with it and being very happy about it …or it can be a virtue with sound and mature spiritual motivation. Perhaps with me, sometimes this sometimes…the ideal to be always that!

Obedience can be a virtue or it could be an escape, and as a virtue it can fuse the common bond making for unity…obedience means authority somewhere and St. Paul said “all authority comes from God”. Be all that as it may, authority or leadership also has responsibilities having received its authority from God and needs to recognize it is “the servant of the servants” and called to serve. Authority or leadership needs to be able to listen…to have ears that can hear and on a few levels…and in a human sense, it needs to be able to hear what another voice may be actually saying, and often to do this, it needs to ask. The Holy Spirit is absolutely all embracingly inclusive…and not at all snobbish, nor bigotted, nor selective. I feel that the more I am all embracingly inclusive and not at all snobbish, biggoted nor selective (common sense dictates. St. Albert “common sense is the guide of all the virtues”), then I am in a better position, Grace present, to hear on a spiritual level The Holy Spirit and in whatever way He chooses to speak for His good reasons…the gentle breeze, or the mighty wind.

I think change must come, because it is impossible to grow without change. Be that as it may, change is not necessarily good/positive growth in the direction of God’s Will. When I look at a rosebud that is later the rose…the essence of the matter is that I have noted change and growth from one appearance to another…and all along the process the essence is that it has been changing.

The answer?..the journey continues… and on we go and hopefully will love, respect and care for each other and all - and with ears that can hear…and The Will of God most often is an unfolding matter in our path and will endure.

My personal hope is to see the world indeed flooded with as many religious habits as we nowadays see the Islamic veil. When I see a women in an Islamic veil it reminds me of the presence of the Islamic religion in our midst…it speaks without a word. I dont know, perhaps God has something else in mind “My Ways are not your ways”. All too often we make an objective of what we think is God’s Will and then work towards that.

I dunno, perhaps we seculars need some item of clothing or a type of clothing itself that speaks without saying a word that Catholic Christianity is now present…but then I think, we would sure have to be prepared to live up to that, for it would sure speak loudly.

Just my really little lay person take…Blessings all…Barb:o
 
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