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St.Eric
Guest
Can anyone show me where “word of faith” ministries are scriptural and the “way to go”? Give it you best shot…please…
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tequilamac
Guest
No. they are a sola scriptura and sola fide Church with a strong belief in the rapture of the remnant which of course is themselves. They reject all structure, all teachings of anyone anywhere that is outside of the bible, they believe in eternal damnation of the repentant (!) unbeliever, however God will rapture anyone who is good to Israel for whatever the reason.
They have an odd Trinity which consists of three distinct spirit persons contained within two One Godheads. (I can’t quite picture that it is too confusing.)
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DShreffler
Guest
I have always been curious if they have allegiance to a particular denomination…
http://www.amphi.com/district/news/images/EECE741851F14D108B7CD187A699732D.jpg
OR…
http://www011.upp.so-net.ne.jp/SpanishGuy/israel/shekel.jpg
http://www.amphi.com/district/news/images/EECE741851F14D108B7CD187A699732D.jpg
OR…
http://www011.upp.so-net.ne.jp/SpanishGuy/israel/shekel.jpg
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tequilamac
Guest
I think both. they probably do raise money or take collections for Israel as they are Christian Zionest in outlook.
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believers
Guest
Rom 10:8
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
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tequilamac
Guest
Nope. Because Romans Paul rightly expects you to have faith in something not just an unnamed faith. It just does not tail off into a vacuum. Try again.
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believers
Guest
It’s more accurate to say we are saved by faith in the Blood of Jesus only which the Bible only teaches.
Rapture: yes. For who? Only God knows. Believe and obey the Word to be sure.
No legalism: In other words… you cannot do anything to earn your way into heaven.
Baptism of Holy Ghost: Yes
God will rapture anyone who is good to Israel for whatever reason: NO
Trinity: God the Father, God the Son, & God the Holy Spirit. A triune Godhead.
Eternal damnation for those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit: Yes
The Word of God only.
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tequilamac
Guest
Except it isn’t. It’s the person’s preferred word of God only. For instance let’s go sola sciptura here about sola fide:
“Faith without works is dead”. The Word of God.
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believers
Guest
Hbr 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things NOT SEEN.
Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
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tequilamac
Guest
“Faith without works is dead”. The Word of the Lord.
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believers
Guest
First you define your faith. Then define your works. Let’s see if it lines up with the Word of God.
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tequilamac
Guest
I am following your lead. You stated:
"It’s more accurate to say we are saved by faith in the Blood of Jesus only which the Bible only teaches.
Rapture: yes. For who? Only God knows. Believe and obey the Word to be sure.
No legalism: In other words… you cannot do anything to earn your way into heaven.
Baptism of Holy Ghost: Yes
God will rapture anyone who is good to Israel for whatever reason: NO
Trinity: God the Father, God the Son, & God the Holy Spirit. A triune Godhead.
Eternal damnation for those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit: Yes
The Word of God only."
And my response to your statement in bold is
“Faith without works is dead.”
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santaro75
Guest
Faith in Christ.
Works of God Are impossible without faith in God.
example…
Elijah said to her, “Do not be afraid.
Go and do as you propose.
But first make me a little cake and bring it to me.
Then you can prepare something for yourself and your son.
For the LORD, the God of Israel, says,
‘The jar of flour shall not go empty,
nor the jug of oil run dry,
until the day when the LORD sends rain upon the earth.’”
She left and did as Elijah had said.
She was able to eat for a year, and he and her son as well;
the jar of flour did not go empty,
nor the jug of oil run dry,
as the LORD had foretold through Elijah.
This kind of giving is only possible with Faith in God and therefor is a work of God which is a fruit of your faith! If your faith bears no fruit you will be cut off.
When he was going back to the city in the morning, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went over to it, but found nothing on it except leaves. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again.” And immediately the fig tree withered
those in the book of life will be judged by what THEY HAVE DONE!
Next I saw a large white throne and the one who was sitting on it. The earth and the sky fled from his presence and there was no place for them. I saw the dead, the great and the lowly, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. Then another scroll was opened, the book of life. The dead were judged according to their deeds, by what was written in the scrolls. The sea gave up its dead; then Death and Hades gave up their dead. All the dead were judged according to their deeds.
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believers
Guest
Let’s just get straight to the point so you know where my faith is.
I believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God who died for ALL of our sins, was buried, and rose again by the power of God.
Now, my works reflect my faith. I preach the cross, I pray, I study to show thyself approved, I give to the poor & needy, I love everyone with God’s love. I obey Jesus’ commandments of love.
I do not believe in water baptism as a form of works, nor confession to a priest, nor eating a piece of bread believed to be called Jesus, making the sign of the cross, putting ash on my forehead, saying the rosary, etc…
My point is, I believe in the saving power of the blood of Jesus. All of our sins have been washed away and all I have to do is believe and obey. You guys believe that we still have sin and water baptism washes away original sin. That’s not faith in Jesus. That’s faith in water baptism.
In case your wondering… I posted under this thread because I’m a product of Word of Faith church. I attend Rhema Bible Training Center in Canada.
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tequilamac
Guest
Then clearly you show that you do not have faith so we are back to where we were to the beginning- first you must have faith in something, one does not carry around the word faith within itself. It must be faith in SOMETHING. And yet in your above pargraph, you pretty much showed me you do not even believe in the Lord enough to do what He said to do in His Word. How ridiculous is that?
For instance you said you do not believe in:
nor eating a piece of bread believed to be called Jesus.
Well Catholics believe in the Bible and believe in Jesus Christ so we do eat a piece of bread believed to be called Jesus because He said to do so int he Bible. (Hey maybe catholics really are sola scriptura.)
John 6:31-70
"31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert, as it is written: He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you; Moses gave you not bread from heaven, but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life to the world. 34 They said therefore unto him: Lord, give us always this bread. 35 And Jesus said to them: I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall not hunger: and he that believeth in me shall never thirst.
Matthew
26
14 15 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
27
Then he took a cup, gave thanks, 16 and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you,
28
for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.
And as Bible believing Catholics that is exactly what we do.
You say you do not believe in:
put ash on my forehead
Sorry- the bible abounds with instances of ashes used for penance. Ashes to ashes dust to dust for instance. As bible believing Cahtolics we must follow the Word of God and also use ashes.
You say you do not believe in water baptism as a work:
John 33
5
Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.
Luke3
21
9 10 After all the people had been baptized and Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, heaven was opened
As bible believing Christians Catholics must be baptised in water as Jesus said to do and actually did Himself.
We do not consider water baptism a work. We do consider bringing someone else to conversion a good work or fruit.
As Bible believing Christians, Catholics must have works because the Bible tells us so:
“Faith without works is dead.”
“The tree with no fruit will be chopped down and burned.
do not put your light under a bushel.”
“Let the world know your works so that they will give glory to God.”
I will pray for you that you will eventually have faith in something or someone. At this time, not only do you not believe Jesus but neither do you believe in the Bible. How sad.
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believers
Guest
The bread Jesus is referring to is not like the manna in the desert, you don’t literally eat it with your mouth. It’s spiritual. Anyway… I’d love to go into this deeper with you, but I’d have to repeat every conversation I’ve had.Then clearly you show that you do not have faith so we are back to where we were to the beginning- first you must have faith in something, one does not carry around the word faith within itself. It must be faith in SOMETHING. And yet in your above pargraph, you pretty much showed me you do not even believe in the Lord enough to do what He said to do in His Word. How ridiculous is that?
For instance you said you do not believe in:
nor eating a piece of bread believed to be called Jesus.
Well Catholics believe in the Bible and believe in Jesus Christ so we do eat a piece of bread believed to be called Jesus because He said to do so int he Bible. (Hey maybe catholics really are sola scriptura.)
John 6:31-70
"31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert, as it is written: He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you; Moses gave you not bread from heaven, but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life to the world. 34 They said therefore unto him: Lord, give us always this bread. 35 And Jesus said to them: I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall not hunger: and he that believeth in me shall never thirst.
Matthew
26
14 15 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
27
Then he took a cup, gave thanks, 16 and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you,
28
for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.
And as Bible believing Catholics that is exactly what we do.
You say you do not believe in:
put ash on my forehead
Sorry- the bible abounds with instances of ashes used for penance. Ashes to ashes dust to dust for instance. As bible believing Cahtolics we must follow the Word of God and also use ashes.
You say you do not believe in water baptism as a work:
John 33
5
Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.
Luke3
21
9 10 After all the people had been baptized and Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, heaven was opened
As bible believing Christians Catholics must be baptised in water as Jesus said to do and actually did Himself.
We do not consider water baptism a work. We do consider bringing someone else to conversion a good work or fruit.
As Bible believing Christians, Catholics must have works because the Bible tells us so:
“Faith without works is dead.”
“The tree with no fruit will be chopped down and burned.
do not put your light under a bushel.”
“Let the world know your works so that they will give glory to God.”
I will pray for you that you will eventually have faith in something or someone. At this time, not only do you not believe Jesus but neither do you believe in the Bible. How sad.
Jhn 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: NOT AS your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
Jhn 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
1Cr 10:3
And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Cr 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Jesus is the OPPOSITE of what the wicked eat and drink.
Pro 4:17
For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence.
Believe in the blood, the finished work of Christ. The person who redeemed us, paid our debt in full, is our Lamb, our sin offering to God, our King, Lord, & Savior. He has done it all. We just have to believe. Receive the gift by believing and obeying the only person who can get us into Heaven. His blood alone did it for us.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Anyway… I’ll keep it short. I have no intention of debating any further. That’s where my faith is. The finished work of Jesus on the cross. You wanted to know what Word of Faith Ministries is all about… there you have it.
One more thing about baptism… All baptisms referred to after the death, burial, & resurrection refer to the baptism of the Holy Ghost (NOT water) which comes by believing in the preaching of the cross (resurrection).
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tequilamac
Guest
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cestusdei
Guest
The WOF movement is a horrible heresy. The wreckage it causes in peoples lives is immense. It is all about self and wealth. Jesus is just a means to living it up and getting rich. Jesus died on the cross…so you could drive a porche. WOF comes straight from hell.
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santaro75
Guest
Except for the fact that Jesus said to do it and that Peter said that it saves you and that it washes away your sins. but if you choose to follow your own logical thinking and not the bible which is beyond human logic…have at it!
“This is my body”…“This is my blood”
pretty clear to me. We are to eat the pashcal lamb of the new passover made available through the ministry of the church in the form of bread and wine. pretty easy to understand.
Now in john6 where he said the flesh is of no avail, he meant that your mind and human logic will never understand the eucharist and that only through the spirit will you be able to discern it.
- Status