Working's of God vs. attacks from the devil?

[Kmvn34]

How can you tell the difference?

My mom, brother and I are going through some family problems and my mom really needs a job (she has needed one for about 5 weeks). Her not having a job makes her sad which is terrible for me to watch. She is an RN and she has applied to 14 places and still no calls back.

I know the Lord works in mysterious ways. I tell myself, “Maybe God is waiting for the perfect job to come up” or something.

But could it just be the devil? I have heard the devil attacks finances. So if he is attacking, where is God? My mom and I have been praying and she still has no job
I am not angry with God, i’m just confused with what he is doing right now.

Anyway, so is it God just putting my family through this hardship for a lesson? Or is it the devil attacking and God is protecting us somehow but I just don’t see it?

Or in these situations, can you not tell?

 

[Charlemagne_III]

How can you tell the difference?

My mom, brother and I are going through some family problems and my mom really needs a job (she has needed one for about 5 weeks). Her not having a job makes her sad which is terrible for me to watch. She is an RN and she has applied to 14 places and still no calls back.

I know the Lord works in mysterious ways. I tell myself, “Maybe God is waiting for the perfect job to come up” or something.

But could it just be the devil? I have heard the devil attacks finances. So if he is attacking, where is God? My mom and I have been praying and she still has no job
I am not angry with God, i’m just confused with what he is doing right now.

Anyway, so is it God just putting my family through this hardship for a lesson? Or is it the devil attacking and God is protecting us somehow but I just don’t see it?

Or in these situations, can you not tell?

As Bishop Fulton Sheen used to say: all prayers are answered.

Yes.
No.
Wait.

Looks like your answer is wait.

God bless you and your mother with a good job.

 

[friardchips]

I don’t think God attacks finances. But he does allow for issues so that we come to rely on him more than on money. Keep praying. But not for money - as these are not things of Heaven - but instead for God to show you the meaning of, and to cope with, the situation, in order that you might learn from what meaning this situation can illuminate for your spiritual growth, and for your mothers. Remember always, God is very close to those who suffer.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

I don’t think you can - and there may be a 3rd possibility as well. Just karma (cause/effects) with no involvement of God or devil.

We always want things to make sense to us and be explicable and be controllable don’t we? We want God to be in charge so we can control Him with our prayers and get us what we want. And if he doesn’t give us what we want (ie pray for) then we find excuses to explain that too (I am too sinful, the devil is responsible etc).

Just keep asking God to help you and your mum in this situation but don’t get hung up on how that has to be resolved or in what way it is to be resolved. God always answers but often not in the way we expect - sometimes his answer is to expand our hearts to accept it isn’t going to be our way or in our time. Let God be God…not our puppet.

To “tell the difference” is not a healthy approach to your difficult situation.
Let go and let God as they say.

How can you tell the difference?

My mom, brother and I are going through some family problems and my mom really needs a job (she has needed one for about 5 weeks). Her not having a job makes her sad which is terrible for me to watch. She is an RN and she has applied to 14 places and still no calls back.

I know the Lord works in mysterious ways. I tell myself, “Maybe God is waiting for the perfect job to come up” or something.

But could it just be the devil? I have heard the devil attacks finances. So if he is attacking, where is God? My mom and I have been praying and she still has no job
I am not angry with God, i’m just confused with what he is doing right now.

Anyway, so is it God just putting my family through this hardship for a lesson? Or is it the devil attacking and God is protecting us somehow but I just don’t see it?

Or in these situations, can you not tell?

 

[friardchips]

I don’t think you can - and there may be a 3rd possibility as well. Just karma (cause/effects) with no involvement of God or devil.

Is that what karma means: cause and effect? (I apologise for my ignorance in advance).

An interesting post overall, reading it again. I tend to think there is meaning in everything, when offering up to God all that is. I think there is the possibility of immediate cause and effect - a pencil is on the floor as a consequence of me having dropped it - but the moment I choose not to get frustrated with my butter fingers and patiently pick the pencil up because in my heart I know that God would like me to be patient with myself, then I am turning what would have been yet another natural consequence of the pencil being on the floor - my frustration expressed somehow - into a meaningful response born of love for God, thus ending the downward spiral of chaos and discontent. It could even be argued that sometimes God’s angels may allow us to drop the pencil, that God may even allow the devil or his minions to cause the pencil to drop, in order that we might learn patience. In the same way people can become ill. God allows for sickness that in itself may or may not be the effect of a direct cause, but there is still meaning to be derived from it, otherwise God would not have allowed it. Interested to know your reflection as a response to mine (?)

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Is that what karma means: cause and effect? (I apologise for my ignorance in advance).

An interesting post overall, reading it again. I tend to think there is meaning in everything, when offering up to God all that is. I think there is the possibility of immediate cause and effect - a pencil is on the floor as a consequence of me having dropped it - but the moment I choose not to get frustrated with my butter fingers and patiently pick the pencil up because in my heart I know that God would like me to be patient with myself, then I am turning what would have been yet another natural consequence of the pencil being on the floor - my frustration expressed somehow - into a meaningful response born of love for God, thus ending the downward spiral of chaos and discontent. It could even be argued that sometimes God’s angels may allow us to drop the pencil, that God may even allow the devil or his minions to cause the pencil to drop, in order that we might learn patience. In the same way people can become ill. God allows for sickness that in itself may or may not be the effect of a direct cause, but there is still meaning to be derived from it, otherwise God would not have allowed it. Interested to know your reflection as a response to mine (?)

All good stuff but we don’t have to talk about God or the devil’s minions to explain the existence of some chaos or frustration or unintelligible suffering in our lives and the world. Some of it is explicable simply by our own stupidity, vice, carelessness - or that of others. Much we will never truly be able to explain or understand - sure some posit God testing us or wanting us to increased in virtue etc etc.
But in the end we don;'t really know that. It just is and wise people, as you say,
try to bring harmony out of suffering as best they can because it minimises our own suffering and that of others. Christians of course, as you say, do it for God as well…after all if God is Beauty, Truth, Harmony, Unity Goodness etc - then doing these things for their own sake always has been doing them for God. Christians at least know this sort of wise, compassionate and virtuous behaviour actually involves a relationship with a Person (three actually).

 

[friardchips]

All good stuff but we don’t have to talk about God or the devil’s minions to explain the existence of some chaos or frustration or unintelligible suffering in our lives and the world.

I’ve replied with a further response because I think this is a valid discussion. Thank you for reflecting upon my thoughts when asked.

I agree that for the most part we don’t. It is maybe necessary, or a given for some more than others possibly depending on what their role is in the Church, as to how much as Christians we understand or need to ‘discern the spirits’. I think all Christians do this to some degree because it is the contrast between good and evil - what is Truth and leads to joy or what is chaos that leads to death. Practically, all we need to do is trust and follow the Cross so in one way I agree with you - a sensible practice to just get on with it, if that is what you meant (?); however, on the other hand, I think that it can be useful in order to more fully appreciate the work of the Holy Spirit - but then we can still do that by experiencing love, so not disagreeing with you really, still.

Some of it is explicable simply by our own stupidity, vice, carelessness - or that of others. Much we will never truly be able to explain or understand - sure some posit God testing us or wanting us to increased in virtue etc etc.

Depends also whether we want to or whether we have reason to understand. In terms of chaos, well chaos is the seeming absence of God, so carelessness is born of sin (foolishness in that case). But it still has meaning because otherwise our sinfulness (foolishness, in this case) would be an end unto itself. If we recognise our weakness, we can then more fully turn back to God. As you say, though, trying to discern whether our sinfulness is from our inclination to sin or the devil, I agree, something that does not always show itself and it is better to accept responsibility anyway for our own mistakes and evil tendencies. I do think that God always wants us to grow in virtue so everything if offered up has meaning that can help us grow.

But in the end we don;'t really know that. It just is and wise people, as you say,
try to bring harmony out of suffering as best they can because it minimises our own suffering and that of others.

Christians of course, as you say, do it for God as well…after all if God is Beauty, Truth, Harmony, Unity Goodness etc - then doing these things for their own sake always has been doing them for God. Christians at least know this sort of wise, compassionate and virtuous behaviour actually involves a relationship with a Person (three actually).

I disagree here and don’t disagree. Wise people may point this out from prayerful enlightenment but all people can realise this truth too. Truth is not limited to very wise people only. This realisation happens naturally in spiritual growth.

I would disagree with the first bit underlined. But then you answered yourself with something that I do agree with that I underlined in the second case.

Christians don’t try to bring harmony out of suffering to minimize it in the strictest sense. Sometimes we do, I suppose. Rather, we offer to God our suffering in order to understand it. I suppose in some sense if we understand it then we will have the suffering minimized because, as the Saints and also many ordinary Christians proved, the acceptance of suffering can bring joy and peace amongst the anguish and bring great blessings of miraculous hope. But ‘trying to’ sounds too much of a conscious effort. We can express ourselves consciously, but the Holy Spirit is in us, knows our needs, and expresses them for us, with sighs within us, too deep for words (or so the quote goes, don’t ask me where from). But even then, the greater in virtue Christians grow, the less the offering up of suffering becomes about their own temporal needs, and more about being joined with Christ and sharing in His Passion.

And picking up from what you said in the second bit I underlined: this is true - God has always been there so our suffering was always for Him. A nice point that actually! He has always been there. So God is love, God is all the things you said, but with God is a ‘relationship’, which you said, which establishes from the relationship of the Trinity, ‘faith’, for us to trust in that relationship, and ‘reason’ for us to understand that relationship. And from that comes ‘meaning’. So if God was always there- the very meaning of our existence IS God and therefore all suffering has meaning because all existence comes from God, and from a turning away from God can come a turning back to…I suppose I am trying to sum up what we said, by stating, that situations are not there from which we then derive some new or superficial meaning. The meaning that speaks to us at the core of our very being is already there in everything around us because God always was and always will be. Everything came to be through Christ, Christ is the meaning for our lives, so it follows that everything in our lives, around us, and the things that happen to us, including our suffering, all points to the meaning of our existence imprinted on our souls, like a blueprint: God IS and loves us so much He is to give, and did give us, Himself in Christ…

as a sacrifice for our sins.

 

[White_Peony]

I believe God is putting you through this as a lesson in trust. Hold on!

 

[ready]

How can you tell the difference?

My mom, brother and I are going through some family problems and my mom really needs a job (she has needed one for about 5 weeks). Her not having a job makes her sad which is terrible for me to watch. She is an RN and she has applied to 14 places and still no calls back.

I know the Lord works in mysterious ways. I tell myself, “Maybe God is waiting for the perfect job to come up” or something.

But could it just be the devil? I have heard the devil attacks finances. So if he is attacking, where is God? My mom and I have been praying and she still has no job
I am not angry with God, i’m just confused with what he is doing right now.

Anyway, so is it God just putting my family through this hardship for a lesson? Or is it the devil attacking and God is protecting us somehow but I just don’t see it?

Or in these situations, can you not tell?

The devil can do NOTHING that God does not permit him to do. God is the First Cause of everything that happens to you and your family, the devil and others are only Secondary Agents. Never fear because everything is permitted and arranged by our Lord’s sovereign goodness. He has a plan, and you and your family must just trust in Him and be abandoned to His holy Will, His merciful Love. God bless you.

 

[friardchips]

How can you tell the difference?

My mom, brother and I are going through some family problems and my mom really needs a job (she has needed one for about 5 weeks). Her not having a job makes her sad which is terrible for me to watch. She is an RN and she has applied to 14 places and still no calls back.

I know the Lord works in mysterious ways. I tell myself, “Maybe God is waiting for the perfect job to come up” or something.

But could it just be the devil? I have heard the devil attacks finances. So if he is attacking, where is God? My mom and I have been praying and she still has no job
I am not angry with God, i’m just confused with what he is doing right now.

Anyway, so is it God just putting my family through this hardship for a lesson? Or is it the devil attacking and God is protecting us somehow but I just don’t see it?

Or in these situations, can you not tell?

Hi. This is what the Catechism says so stick to R.C Church teaching:

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p7.htm

412 But why did God not prevent the first man from sinning? St. Leo the Great responds, "Christ’s inexpressible grace gave us blessings better than those the demon’s envy had taken away."307 And St. Thomas Aquinas wrote, "There is nothing to prevent human nature’s being raised up to something greater, even after sin; God permits evil in order to draw forth some greater good. Thus St. Paul says, ‘Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more’; and the Exsultet sings, ‘O happy fault,. . . which gained for us so great a Redeemer!’"308

IN BRIEF

413 “God did not make death, and he does not delight in the death of the living. . . It was through the devil’s envy that death entered the world” (Wis 1:13; 2:24).

414 Satan or the devil and the other demons are fallen angels who have freely refused to serve God and his plan. Their choice against God is definitive. They try to associate man in their revolt against God.

415 “Although set by God in a state of rectitude man, enticed by the evil one, abused his freedom at the very start of history. He lifted himself up against God, and sought to attain his goal apart from him” (GS 13 § 1).

416 By his sin Adam, as the first man, lost the original holiness and justice he had received from God, not only for himself but for all human beings.

417 Adam and Eve transmitted to their descendants human nature wounded by their own first sin and hence deprived of original holiness and justice; this deprivation is called “original sin”.

418 As a result of original sin, human nature is weakened in its powers, subject to ignorance, suffering and the domination of death, and inclined to sin (this inclination is called “concupiscence”).

419 “We therefore hold, with the Council of Trent, that original sin is transmitted with human nature, “by propagation, not by imitation” and that it is. . . ‘proper to each’” (Paul VI, CPG § 16).

420 The victory that Christ won over sin has given us greater blessings than those which sin had taken from us: “where sin increased, grace abounded all the more” (Rom 5:20).

421 Christians believe that “the world has been established and kept in being by the Creator’s love; has fallen into slavery to sin but has been set free by Christ, crucified and risen to break the power of the evil one. . .” (GS 2 § 2).’

God does indeed permit the devil to attack that we might be drawn closer to God in our suffering but it is the devils fury from his initial evil act of turning away from God which causes evil from the fallen angel’s continuing revolt against God.

In short: God does not ATTACK you EVER! He permits suffering to varying degrees but He does not cause anyone to suffer and never delights in it when it happens.

God bless.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

How can you tell the difference?

My mom, brother and I are going through some family problems and my mom really needs a job (she has needed one for about 5 weeks). Her not having a job makes her sad which is terrible for me to watch. She is an RN and she has applied to 14 places and still no calls back.

I know the Lord works in mysterious ways. I tell myself, “Maybe God is waiting for the perfect job to come up” or something.

But could it just be the devil? I have heard the devil attacks finances. So if he is attacking, where is God? My mom and I have been praying and she still has no job
I am not angry with God, i’m just confused with what he is doing right now.

Anyway, so is it God just putting my family through this hardship for a lesson? Or is it the devil attacking and God is protecting us somehow but I just don’t see it?

Or in these situations, can you not tell?

These sorts of difficult situations are never easy to pin down. The fact is that a lot of people are out of work, so a job for your mother means someone else misses out, and vice versa. This is why I’m always a bit amused about sportsmen saying their trust in God gave them the victory - what they’re saying is that God plays favourites, and only barracks for certain individuals or teams. Especially in boxing, where they belt the other bloke to a pulp.

There is the issue of trust - do you trust God to provide (something I find hard at times, since my life has certainly not worked out the way I expected, and there’s been a lot of discouragement).

Then there’s the building of empathy - assuming your mother gets a job, she should have developed some empathy with other people who have been out of work. She (and / or you) might join some sort of support group to help others in the same sort of situation.

I don’t know the answer to your question. The devil certainly exists, but whether he’s involved in this I’m somewhat hesitant to say. Otherwise you may as well say that the devil is involved every time someone can’t find a job.

 

[ready]

God is the First Cause of everything that happens to you and your family, the devil and others are only Secondary Agents.

This teaching of St. Thomas Aquinas is very true. God is the First Cause of everything that happens in the universe and to each one of us. God bless you.