"Works will not save you" -- what exactly does that mean?

[whatevergirl]

I heard something that was a bit unsettling to me this morning, and thought I’d open this up for discussion on here …

I sometimes listen to ‘Christian inspirational radio’ here in Tampa on my way into work–I used to listen to Relevant Radio–which is always my first choice, but it is getting harder and harder for it to come in clearer. They have mentioned on air that it was going to be bought by another station soon…So, I listen to this one program…and the preacher/pastor said to his congregation (usually it’s taped services*)…“Nothing will save you, except believing that Jesus died for your sins. Works will not save you. Baptism, the Lord’s supper, etc…will not save you. Jesus died for you-and as long as you accept Jesus into your heart–your sins are forgiven and forgotten.”*

He didn’t elaborate, and I sometimes wonder what Protestants mean by that? So…do they believe that we Catholics are performing ‘works’ when we go to confession? That we should just assume God forgives us, without having to ask? Is repentance seen as a ‘work?’ I was curious as to what you all think of that–if you are Protestant, it would be helpful to hear your reply on this.

I personally found that statement to be a little deceptive…we need to ask for forgiveness, and seek repentance…just because Jesus died on the cross for our sins, doesn’t mean it requires nothing of me…I just found his message a little unsettling. I know we cannot earn salvation–but is that what non Catholics think we are doing by going to confession…making baptism a priority…trying to be pure before communion…fasting…etc?

I normally enjoy this station, as it’s typically general and very uplifting, and doesn’t get into knocking Catholics like other radio preachers do…but, today, bugged me.

Look forward to your thoughts.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

I heard something that was a bit unsettling to me this morning, and thought I’d open this up for discussion on here …

I sometimes listen to ‘Christian inspirational radio’ here in Tampa on my way into work–I used to listen to Relevant Radio–which is always my first choice, but it is getting harder and harder for it to come in clearer. They have mentioned on air that it was going to be bought by another station soon…So, I listen to this one program…and the preacher/pastor said to his congregation (usually it’s taped services*)…“Nothing will save you, except believing that Jesus died for your sins. Works will not save you. Baptism, the Lord’s supper, etc…will not save you. Jesus died for you-and as long as you accept Jesus into your heart–your sins are forgiven and forgotten.”*

He didn’t elaborate, and I sometimes wonder what Protestants mean by that? So…do they believe that we Catholics are performing ‘works’ when we go to confession? That we should just assume God forgives us, without having to ask? Is repentance seen as a ‘work?’ I was curious as to what you all think of that–if you are Protestant, it would be helpful to hear your reply on this.
… Look forward to your thoughts.

Hi, Whatever!

Some Christians believe the Bible to teach that the good things you do are the result of God forgiving you, not the reason God forgives you. They look at forgiveness as a forever thing. That is, once God forgives you, He never unforgives you. You are from that moment eternally forgiven.

A few passages from the Bible they believe teach this:

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. (Titus 3:4-5)

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
– Jesus (John 3:16)

 

[itsjustdave1988]

A Calvinist baptist once asserted to me, “ANY work cancels faith. Works is anything that goes beyond belief. That would include love.”

Love cancels faith? Astonishing.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

What you heard was a version of the “faith alone” error affirmed by many Protestants. It is contrary to Scripture.

See here:

Justified by Works and Not By Faith Alone

 

[whatevergirl]

Thank you very much for replying…it’s funny you mention ‘contrary to scripture,’ as reading that brought back more of the broadcast to me just now…he said…“Only the Gospel can save you.” I was like…ok, maybe I won’t be listening to this show anymore. The Gospel discusses the ‘fruits’ of our belief in Jesus’ dying for our sins, and how our works are byproducts from wanting to live a life pleasing to God–and by trying to mirror the example Jesus left for us.

I just found it surprising… I don’t imagine he could be really thinking that nothing is required of us to be considered “practicing Christians”…but who knows!? lol

 

[whatevergirl]

LOL–I remember another thing!
He said that ‘we shouldn’t be adding anything to scripture…like other churches do…we should only be adhering to Sripture.’ I really found the whole thing unsettling.

We don’t add anything!!! I know he was speaking of Catholics.

The irony, is he is going off the air after tomorrow…

 

[suupah]

So…do they believe that we Catholics are performing ‘works’ when we go to confession? That we should just assume God forgives us, without having to ask? Is repentance seen as a ‘work?’

Psalm 32
Happy those to whom the LORD imputes no guilt, in whose spirit is no deceit. As long as I kept silent, my bones wasted away; I groaned all the day.For day and night your hand was heavy upon me; my strength withered as in dry summer heat. Selah Then I declared my sin to you; my guilt I did not hide. I said, “I confess my faults to the LORD,” and you took away the guilt of my sin.

Seems to indicate you confess to God and he blots out your sin. I see their point on confession. I defer to the teaching on the church on this one, but find sincere repentance to God seems to have the same graces associated with it as confession to a priest.

 

[sandusky]

The History of Justification

Justification by Faith and Its Consequences

Only Ground of Justification: The Imputed Righteousness of Christ

 

[Catholic_Dude]

I heard something that was a bit unsettling to me this morning, and thought I’d open this up for discussion on here …

I sometimes listen to ‘Christian inspirational radio’ here in Tampa on my way into work–I used to listen to Relevant Radio–which is always my first choice, but it is getting harder and harder for it to come in clearer. They have mentioned on air that it was going to be bought by another station soon…So, I listen to this one program…and the preacher/pastor said to his congregation (usually it’s taped services*)…“Nothing will save you, except believing that Jesus died for your sins. Works will not save you. Baptism, the Lord’s supper, etc…will not save you. Jesus died for you-and as long as you accept Jesus into your heart–your sins are forgiven and forgotten.”*

He didn’t elaborate, and I sometimes wonder what Protestants mean by that? So…do they believe that we Catholics are performing ‘works’ when we go to confession? That we should just assume God forgives us, without having to ask? Is repentance seen as a ‘work?’ I was curious as to what you all think of that–if you are Protestant, it would be helpful to hear your reply on this.

I personally found that statement to be a little deceptive…we need to ask for forgiveness, and seek repentance…just because Jesus died on the cross for our sins, doesn’t mean it requires nothing of me…I just found his message a little unsettling. I know we cannot earn salvation–but is that what non Catholics think we are doing by going to confession…making baptism a priority…trying to be pure before communion…fasting…etc?

I normally enjoy this station, as it’s typically general and very uplifting, and doesn’t get into knocking Catholics like other radio preachers do…but, today, bugged me.

Look forward to your thoughts.

See this short post:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3228625#post3228625

Also Protestants cant explain the fact Abraham was justified multiple times, though his life long obedience, here are three examples of when he was justified:
(1)Gen 12:1-4 (Gal 3:8; Heb 11:8)
(2)Gen 15:5-6 (Rom 4:3)
(3)Gen 22 (James 2:21-24)

 

[Catholic_Dude]

The History of Justification
%between%

That article is WORTHLESS in terms of historical and theological accuracy. The biggest laugh is this quote:
Some Roman Catholics like to cry “Forward to the Middle Ages,” thinking that they there find authority for their antisolafideian doctrine. But Adolf Harnack insisted that if the medieval church had followed its favorite teacher, Thomas Aquinas, on justification, the Reformation would not have been necessary.
LOL! This article is simply laughable and worthless and is full of this kind of historical and doctrinal error. St Thomas’ work on Salvation is thoroughly Catholic and incompatible with Protestantism.

[

Justification by Faith and Its Consequences

]( High-Demand | Justification by Faith and Its Consequences)
The opening quote of this starts off totally wrong so he cant logically end up with the right answer:
There are two methods of justification set forth in the Scriptures:

Justification by works – the legal method
Justification by faith – the gospel method The first method requires that men perfectly obey God’s law. “For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.” (Rom. 2:13). The apostle is not saying in this verse that anyone can keep the law, but is saying that if anyone does, he will receive eternal life as his reward.
​

This is a misreading of Rom 2 and falsely thinking there is such thing as “the legal method” that justifies, there is no such “option” either in reality or theoretically.

[

Only Ground of Justification: The Imputed Righteousness of Christ

](Chapel Library)
Imputed Righteousness is an Un-Biblical concept and thus Justification by Faith Alone is un-Biblical and heretical. We can go into details if you want, but for now I will note that this view cannot explain the fact Abraham was justified multiple times. (If I remember correctly last time we had this debate your Protestant theology had no answer for this “phenomenon” in Abraham’s life).

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Hi, Whatever!

Some Christians believe the Bible to teach that the good things you do are the result of God forgiving you, not the reason God forgives you. They look at forgiveness as a forever thing. That is, once God forgives you, He never unforgives you. You are from that moment eternally forgiven.

A few passages from the Bible they believe teach this:

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. (Titus 3:4-5)

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
– Jesus (John 3:16)

**The whole of the matter is faith ALONE, OR SOLA SCRIPTURA, its the alone part and sola part that makes the big difference between Protestants and Catholics.

Catholics have no probelm at all with the scriptures stated above in fact Catholic say Amen to them, but to live a life according to scripture you cant just pick and choose what you want from the bible.

For instance Catholics believe in Grace saves you, faith saves you,but not faith ALONE can save you. Catholics dont stop at faith alone because you have to take the Whole bible in its context , for example John 2:24 “SEE HOW A PERSON IS JUSTIFIED BY WORKS AND NOT BY FAITH ALONE”

****Iam finding the confusion between entering into the kingdom of God (being saved) By the Grace of God, (one does not earn your salvation), confused with how to practic ones Christian faith while being in the state of Grace (living in the kingdom of God).

As St. Paul states in PHILIPIANS 2:12 "SO THEN, MY BELOVED, OBEDIENT AS YOU HAVE ALWAYS BEEN, NOT ONLY WHEN I AM PRESENT BUT ALL THE MORE NOW WHEN I AM ABSENT, WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.

See also 1 Timothy 6:18 Tell them to do good, to be rich in good works , to be generous, ready to share.

Titus 3:8 "This saying is trustworthy I want you to insist on these points, THAT THOSE WHO HAVE BELIEVED IN GOD BE CAREFUL TO DEVOTE THEMSELVES TO GOOD WORKS, these are excellent and beneficial to others.

Titus 3:14 "But let our people, too, learn to devote themselves to good works...

Hebrew 10:24 "We must consider how to rouse one another to love and good works"

James 2:17 "So also FAITH OF ITSELF ("faith alone", mine in paranthesis) , IF IT DOES NOT HAVE WORKS, IS DEAD 18 Indeed someone might say , "you have faith and I have works" DEMONSTRATE YOUR FAITH TO ME WITHOUT WORKS, AND I WILL DEMONSTRATE MY FAITH TO YOU FROM MY WORKS 20 Do you want proof, YOU IGNORAMUS, THAT FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS USELESS"...

Protestants can come up with saving Grace and faith scriptures, but no scripture states FAITH ALONE SAVES YOU And Catholics believe and live out both faith and works from sacred scripture, as James states Faith without works is dead.

The next question should be what are the works then? But I fear protestants lack faith here to find out this question, because of the faith alone theology.

Peace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you**

 

[whatevergirl]

Oddly enough…this morning, I listened in again…and he closed with…‘may you not only be hearers of the Word, but doers, as well.’ So…which is it?

I am so grateful to be Catholic. We have a papacy that has the infallible capacity of interpreting Scripture, so it’s not twisted and contorted by 100 different men…and we get a clear message as to how we are to live. One uniform message. I just can’t imagine how confused I’d feel, if I was being handed different interpretations from different ministers, on a continual basis. I dunno…just grateful to be Catholic!

 

[sandusky]

I am so grateful to be Catholic. We have a papacy that has the infallible capacity of interpreting Scripture, so it’s not twisted and contorted by 100 different men…and we get a clear message as to how we are to live. One uniform message. I just can’t imagine how confused I’d feel, if I was being handed different interpretations from different ministers, on a continual basis. I dunno…just grateful to be Catholic!

The infallible fuzzies.

 

[whatevergirl]

**The whole of the matter is faith ALONE, OR SOLA SCRIPTURA, its the alone part and sola part that makes the big difference between Protestants and Catholics.

Catholics have no probelm at all with the scriptures stated above in fact Catholic say Amen to them, but to live a life according to scripture you cant just pick and choose what you want from the bible.

For instance Catholics believe in Grace saves you, faith saves you,but not faith ALONE can save you. Catholics dont stop at faith alone because you have to take the Whole bible in its context , for example John 2:24 “**SEE HOW A PERSON IS JUSTIFIED BY WORKS AND NOT BY FAITH ALONE”

****Iam finding the confusion between entering into the kingdom of God (being saved) By the Grace of God, (one does not earn your salvation), confused with how to practic ones Christian faith while being in the state of Grace (living in the kingdom of God).

As St. Paul states in PHILIPIANS 2:12 "SO THEN, MY BELOVED, OBEDIENT AS YOU HAVE ALWAYS BEEN, NOT ONLY WHEN I AM PRESENT BUT ALL THE MORE NOW WHEN I AM ABSENT, WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.

See also 1 Timothy 6:18 Tell them to do good, to be rich in good works , to be generous, ready to share.

Titus 3:8 "This saying is trustworthy I want you to insist on these points, THAT THOSE WHO HAVE BELIEVED IN GOD BE CAREFUL TO DEVOTE THEMSELVES TO GOOD WORKS, these are excellent and beneficial to others.

Titus 3:14 "But let our people, too, learn to devote themselves to good works...

Hebrew 10:24 "We must consider how to rouse one another to love and good works"

James 2:17 "So also FAITH OF ITSELF ("faith alone", mine in paranthesis) , IF IT DOES NOT HAVE WORKS, IS DEAD 18 Indeed someone might say , "you have faith and I have works" DEMONSTRATE YOUR FAITH TO ME WITHOUT WORKS, AND I WILL DEMONSTRATE MY FAITH TO YOU FROM MY WORKS 20 Do you want proof, YOU IGNORAMUS, THAT FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS USELESS"...

Protestants can come up with saving Grace and faith scriptures, but no scripture states FAITH ALONE SAVES YOU And Catholics believe and live out both faith and works from sacred scripture, as James states Faith without works is dead.

The next question should be what are the works then? But I fear protestants lack faith here to find out this question, because of the faith alone theology.

Peace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you
I would imagine that being ‘doers of the Word’ is living a Christian life…and seeking to please God, and serve others…as opposed to simply listening to the Good News, and not applying it in our lives. It stands to reason that if someone wants to become ‘better’ at something, they must apply the principles of whatever it is to his/her life. For example, it’s not enough for me to say…‘I believe in eating healthy.’ If I say that, believe it–but eat cake, cookies, and bad stuff all day long every day of the week–my actions will not match my belief system. I think we even become in danger of appearing a little hypocritical when it comes to that. So, that is how I would see ‘works’ as being applied in a Christian’s walk. (walk the talk so to speak)

 

[mikeledes]

Romans 2:5-7

6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Galatians 6:7-10

7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. 9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.

God bless,
Michael

 

[Zooey]

Let me take a shot at explaining this…
There are people (& I have met a few in my 60 years, so I know this), who will say, “Of course I’m going to Heaven; I’ve never killed anybody!!” or…“Of course I’m a Christian, I pay my taxes, don’t I?”
Not kidding…I have really heard these particular examples…So, I think that, in those cases, that “Works will not save you” is a legitimate statement: People don’t get into Heaven by being “respectable”, whatever their definition of “respectable” may be. [Note the subjectivity of these claims, apart from anything else; its all about them…not God; them].The problem arises when it gets repeated as a way to whap other Christians up side of the head with. Which is frequently the case. That is not legitimate, and I think that any careful reading of some threads around here on the subject, as well and other sources, will demonstrate that this has been turned into a flail to assault each other with.
I would have to have heard the context of the phrase, in order to decide how the speaker was using it, but from what has been posted here, it sounds “off”. HTH.

 

[cradlecathlic26]

just want to add, that Catholics do not think “works” will save them, its Faith and good Works, that will!

The Bible tells me so!