Would God deceive us?

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wjp984

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All this cosmology stuff I have been learning got me thinking about whether God would try and deceive us all in his creation and that really none of what we discover means anything at all and that the reality is that God did create the universe in some way. Perhaps it is like the Tower of Babel, which although I believe to be fiction, might be like an analogy to what the universe it like. Do you think God is just confusing us all the time with an incredibly complex universe that has nothing to do with how he actually created us?
 
Wouldn’t it be more rational to consider the possibility that God simply isn’t there?
 
Absolutely not. It doesn’t look promising in my opinion if all these cosmologists are right in their theories but then that is just it. It is all about faith, something I will never lose. Oh, and even if God is not deceiving us and some of these theories are one day proven true, then there has to be some reason God would allow it to be that way. It seems pretty stupid in my opinon for God to use trial and error through multiple univereses though. Then again, it might actually not be trail and error and just God’s incredible design. Perhaps I should have just never taken this course. I was too curious though.
 
It’s hard to put the apple back on the tree. 😉

Good luck to you.
 
It’s hard to put the apple back on the tree. 😉

Good luck to you.
No. God may occasionally frustrate our purposes to thwart our pride but it sounds a bit too complex and calculating for God to plant false scientific evidence as to how the universe came to be.

I think there are easier, more honest and more effective ways for him to show us how ultimately dependent we are on Him - Hurricane Katrina anyone?
 
Well, to paraphrase Descartes.

God is the greatest above all beings, posessing no imperfection.

The choice and action of deceiving are an imperfection.

Therefore, God can not deceive us, being He would then be imperfect.

Josh
 
well then what if these theories are proven true in cosmology and then the concept of God has to be changed if the theories are true. I am having problems with God and there being multiple universes. Therefore I think that perhaps God is just deceiving us.
 
well then what if these theories are proven true in cosmology and then the concept of God has to be changed if the theories are true. I am having problems with God and there being multiple universes. Therefore I think that perhaps God is just deceiving us.
Who says there are multiple universes and how would that affect your faith anyway?
If someone’s faith is strong then nothing will shake it!
 
I don’t think that the fact of God creating more than one universe would in any way alter our relationship with him. Or our scientific understanding - which is much more about the mechanical workings of the universe(s) than the theology or philosophy behind its (their) creation.
 
I think that God probably created the universe in a state of existence or state of being that appears to have existed much longer than it actually did. I would tend to believe that when the earth was created for instance, that the trees were not all saplings or the terrain bare with seeds sprinkled all over. There were some old trees, some young trees, as well as seeds. The old trees however, would have been just created and the same age as the seeds. There would have been baby animals and old animals, chickens AND eggs, etc.
The universe itself would also appear to have been in existence rather than having just started. Therefore a lot of the stars that we see the light from in the sky and have died out millions of years ago according to scientists, may in fact have never existed at all.

In Christ, J.M.J.
mapleoak
 
All this cosmology stuff I have been learning got me thinking about whether God would try and deceive us all in his creation and that really none of what we discover means anything at all and that the reality is that God did create the universe in some way. Perhaps it is like the Tower of Babel, which although I believe to be fiction, might be like an analogy to what the universe it like. Do you think God is just confusing us all the time with an incredibly complex universe that has nothing to do with how he actually created us?
God can neither deceive nor be deceived that is an essential quality of his nature.

We humans, however, can do both.

Our intellects are limited and our ordinary way of learning about the world around us is by observation, reasoning and deduction. Our ability to accomplish this learning, therefore, is limited by the completeness and accuracy of our observations, our intellectual capacity for reasoning and the accuracy of our deductions. Technology improves the quality of our observations and our ability to manipulate a large quantity of data. Where science usually falls down is in the accuracy of deductions made upon all this data.

My initial question was “what is all this cosmology you have been studying?” do you mean you are taking college science courses, or do you mean you are pursuing some other non-scientific course of study?

There is no conflict between science and religion–read Fides et Ratio, the great papal encyclical on that topic. But there is a limit, based on human limitations, to what science can observe and deduce about the natural world, the cosmos.

What are these so-called cosmological theories, who is stating them, upon what authority, why are you taking the course, and if, as it sounds, you are a beginning in this field of study, is it not much more likely that you have a vast deal more to learn about the topic, and that the more you learn the more you will understand?
 
I think that God probably created the universe in a state of existence or state of being that appears to have existed much longer than it actually did. I would tend to believe that when the earth was created for instance, that the trees were not all saplings or the terrain bare with seeds sprinkled all over. There were some old trees, some young trees, as well as seeds. The old trees however, would have been just created and the same age as the seeds. There would have been baby animals and old animals, chickens AND eggs, etc.
The universe itself would also appear to have been in existence rather than having just started. Therefore a lot of the stars that we see the light from in the sky and have died out millions of years ago according to scientists, may in fact have never existed at all.

In Christ, J.M.J.
mapleoak
So you *do *believe that God can and has deceived us?

Peace

Tim
 
All this cosmology stuff I have been learning got me thinking about whether God would try and deceive us all in his creation and that really none of what we discover means anything at all and that the reality is that God did create the universe in some way. Perhaps it is like the Tower of Babel, which although I believe to be fiction, might be like an analogy to what the universe it like. Do you think God is just confusing us all the time with an incredibly complex universe that has nothing to do with how he actually created us?
No, God is not a deceiver. That is not part of His nature.

I think the problem arises when we try to either take the bible as a science textbook or take science as religion. Neither is the case. Our discoveries of God’s wonderful creation should strengthen our faith, not weaken it. However, if we feel that God has revealed science in scriptures and later scientific discoveries refute that revelation, then we find ourselves questioning either our faith or our science. Both would be wrong.

Peace

Tim
 
So you *do *believe that God can and has deceived us?

Peace

Tim
No, rather I don’t really think it makes much difference whether trees were full grown, or if stars were created to be in varying degrees or apparent ages. It just seems to make more sense to believe that the universe was created in a certain ‘state’ and then set into motion. Seems to me more plausible than God having to create an evolving type of deal which, even so would somehow have to have an indicated beginning of some sort. Otherwise, the initial beginning mass of substance that evolved would appear to have some age or history to it.

In Christ J.M.J.
mapleoak
 
God can neither deceive nor be deceived that is an essential quality of his nature.

We humans, however, can do both.

Our intellects are limited and our ordinary way of learning about the world around us is by observation, reasoning and deduction. Our ability to accomplish this learning, therefore, is limited by the completeness and accuracy of our observations, our intellectual capacity for reasoning and the accuracy of our deductions. Technology improves the quality of our observations and our ability to manipulate a large quantity of data. Where science usually falls down is in the accuracy of deductions made upon all this data.

My initial question was “what is all this cosmology you have been studying?” do you mean you are taking college science courses, or do you mean you are pursuing some other non-scientific course of study?

There is no conflict between science and religion–read Fides et Ratio, the great papal encyclical on that topic. But there is a limit, based on human limitations, to what science can observe and deduce about the natural world, the cosmos.

What are these so-called cosmological theories, who is stating them, upon what authority, why are you taking the course, and if, as it sounds, you are a beginning in this field of study, is it not much more likely that you have a vast deal more to learn about the topic, and that the more you learn the more you will understand?
I am just taking an upper division general education course at my university. Everyone is required to take 3 UDGE including one science. This course happens to be the most popular course at the school and looked interesting to me. However, I am now not as strong in my faith because of the class. That does not mean I don’t beleive in God. I will have faith and try to be a good practicing Catholic to the best of my ability regardless. It just means I now have more doubt. I don’t see the need for God in a trial and error multiple universe. However, after today’s lecture the professor did not offer one ounce of sceinetific fact of this theory. It was all a bunch of hypothesis. Therefore, I think this whole multiverse theory is nonsense. Basically, they can’t explain how a one in more than 2 google of chance universe can arise without divine intervention and a creator so they made this multiple universe tgheroy up since there has to be an explanation.
 
I am just taking an upper division general education course at my university. Everyone is required to take 3 UDGE including one science. This course happens to be the most popular course at the school and looked interesting to me. However, I am now not as strong in my faith because of the class. That does not mean I don’t beleive in God. I will have faith and try to be a good practicing Catholic to the best of my ability regardless. It just means I now have more doubt. I don’t see the need for God in a trial and error multiple universe. However, after today’s lecture the professor did not offer one ounce of sceinetific fact of this theory. It was all a bunch of hypothesis. Therefore, I think this whole multiverse theory is nonsense. Basically, they can’t explain how a one in more than 2 google of chance universe can arise without divine intervention and a creator so they made this multiple universe tgheroy up since there has to be an explanation.
Interesting. I earned my degree in geology and never once did I feel that my faith was threatened. Why would your faith be threatened by science?

Peace

Tim
 
All this cosmology stuff I have been learning got me thinking about whether God would try and deceive us all in his creation and that really none of what we discover means anything at all and that the reality is that God did create the universe in some way.
God by definition can not deceive.
He will tell the truth and nothing but the truth.
2 out of 3 ain’t bad 😉
Perhaps it is like the Tower of Babel, which although I believe to be fiction, might be like an analogy to what the universe it like. Do you think God is just confusing us all the time with an incredibly complex universe that has nothing to do with how he actually created us?
No He is not confussing us
the universe just happens to be complex…for us at least
 
God will never ever deceive us. He loves us and created us. He is perfect in every way. How can you possibly think God would do that!
 
I think you missed the point. I am not wondering as to whether God would trick us into anything bad or be deceptful but more so limit our ability to grasp the universe. For example, is it possible that God just made it look like we can go out and understand all these theories of creatioon like the evolution of multiple universes when in fact God created the universe in a completely different way. I think I am over my concerns now since it all just goes back to having faith. It does not make a difference how our universe and existence was created. The fact of the matter is we have our faith in God and that he knew what he was doing.
 
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