Would God have known what it was like to be human without the Incarnation?

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This is another hypothetical question. Would God have known what it was like to be human without the Incarnation, assuming that it was never going to take place. I would say yes, because He knows everything. Of course that doesn’t make the Incarnation pointless, because Christ has two natures. The human and the Divine. The Divine nature took part in the suffering with the human, who suffering was new to?

Thoughts?
 
holdencaulfield said:
This is another hypothetical question. Would God have known what it was like to be human without the Incarnation, assuming that it was never going to take place. I would say yes, because He knows everything. Of course that doesn’t make the Incarnation pointless, because Christ has two natures. The human and the Divine. The Divine nature took part in the suffering with the human, who suffering was new to?

Thoughts?
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Yes, God had never suffered before, and he never did suffer or die. Only Jesus in his humanity suffered and died. But because Jesus is God, we can say that God suffered and died. Not because Jesus in his divinity suffered and died (how could he? God cannot physically suffer or die, for he is a spirit), but because of who Jesus is: God. (Jesus is fully God and fully man, the God-Man).

Certainly God knows everything, but he wouldn’t know what it’s like to be human since he is a spirit. He dosen’t have a human nature - well, not until the second Person of the Trinity assumed human nature (for Jesus is God Incarnate). Now, though, ever since the Incarnation and Paschal Mysteries, God knows what its like to be human, for he has a body, for Jesus is God Incarnate.

However, I don’t think - though I certainly don’t know - God became man in order to know what’s like to be human. Yes, he did become man so that man might become God (i.e., so we can share in the divine nature), so that he might be the perfect model of holiness (“be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect”, and Jesus clarified this when he said, “I and the Father are one”), and so that he might redeem mankind (for man could not redeem himself), but I don’t know if God became man to know what its like to be human, whether out of curiosity, mercy, or whanot. But I do not know the mind of God - only the Holy Spirit knows. And the Holy Spirit leads us to all truths, so let us pray, pray, pray! 🙂
 
holdencaulfield said:
This is another hypothetical question. Would God have known what it was like to be human without the Incarnation, assuming that it was never going to take place. I would say yes, because He knows everything. Of course that doesn’t make the Incarnation pointless, because Christ has two natures. The human and the Divine. The Divine nature took part in the suffering with the human, who suffering was new to?

Thoughts?
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God knows EVERYTHING.
 
God is Infinite.

We humans cannot even begin to comprehend the idea of infinity.

Consider not only infinity of time and space, but also infinity of imagination and creativity. Of infinity of love and charity. Of infinity of patience and understanding. Of infinity in ability.

We exist in three dimensions … four if you include time.

It is impossible for us to consider that there might even be more than three or four dimensions. How would we even conceptualize five or six dimensions.

Mathematically, supposedly we can defend the idea of ten dimensions.

What if there are an infinite number of dimensions. How would we understand all or some of the ramifications of that.

The real crux of the problem is that we might have an IQ of 100; someone like Bill Gates might have an IQ of 200; and someone like Albert Einstein might have an IQ of 300.

But then were do we place God in the IQ range?

We have an inclination to merely assume some superhuman IQ … like maybe … 400.

But God’s IQ is infinite.

His abilities are beyond our comprehension.

It’s like saying I’m smart because I can do a crossword puzzle in ink. But that’s totally ignoring the intelligence and forethought of the person who wrote/ devised that crossword puzzle.
 
Yes, that makes much sense. However so God would have known what it was like to suffer, yet he would have never experienced it. And He would have never died in His humanity. Thank you, this helps.
 
If God did not know, he would not be Omniscient.and would therefore not be God.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
If God did not know, he would not be Omniscient.and would therefore not be God.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
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Yes, you are right. Can we assume there is a difference between knowing and experiencing?
 
God certainly knows, but as for Him to become human like us, He wants to make sure we don’t think He does not know what suffering means. He suffered more than any of us.
 
water said:
God certainly knows, but as for Him to become human like us, He wants to make sure we don’t think He does not know what suffering means. He suffered more than any of us.
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Great point. And He had never suffered as a human before. Experience vs. Knowing.
 
holdencaulfield said:
Yes, you are right. Can we assume there is a difference between knowing and experiencing?
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God created all living creatures and made man in His image.
There is a difference for us humans as we can know about a trip in a plane but if we have not flown we may not experience, although they make it so we don’t even feel the variance. LOL God knows .
God wants us to experience Him. He not only wanted us to know him but to experience Him. He made Adam perfect in His image but gave him a will so he could chose to come willingly to Himself. The incarnation helped us experience God. You ask some good questions 👍
 
dessert said:
God created all living creatures and made man in His image.
There is a difference for us humans as we can know about a trip in a plane but if we have not flown we may not experience, although they make it so we don’t even feel the variance. LOL God knows .
God wants us to experience Him. He not only wanted us to know him but to experience Him. He made Adam perfect in His image but gave him a will so he could chose to come willingly to Himself. The incarnation helped us experience God. You ask some good questions 👍
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Thanks. Besides God had never suffered in a human nature before or died in a human nature.
 
Yes, good questions.

I think a little like Dessert that the incarnation serves a great purpose in allowing us a better opportunity in getting to know God (in terms we can readily understand).

concepts like infinity and beyond 4 dimensions and omnipresense etc might force us to think about God through a prism of an exercise in logic - like Buddism / Islam IMHO.

The incarnation allows us a better personal understanding of God.

With the question of God experiencing / knowing pain, i would guess that he would, although it is a difficult question.

Knowing everything is hard to do i would guess unless you are ‘wearing anothers shoes’. Can i know how an ant is ? Or a great singer / artist ? Or a mentally handicapped person ? etc.
Can i really know that without being that in some way ?
And in being a limited creature can God still be God ?

Jesus speaks of a multiplicity of God. Not a multiplicity of Gods, but a multiplicity of God. He is in the Father, and the father in him just as He is in us and we in him if we abide in him. This is also a joining of spirits.

I guess in this way God can experience many things without necessarilly limiting himself.

So with the idea of a Trinity and a multiplicity of God, i think He can experience things such as pain.

I think with a lot of the reported Marian apparitions Mary speaks of a God in pain for our sins and being much offended.

Multiplicity of God and joining of spirit would fit in there as well.

just thinking out loud. :confused: 🙂
 
Yes, He is omniscient. But we would not know what it was like to be like God (which is what Holy Writ says we will be if we follow, the Way, who is the Divine Logos made flesh).
 
holdencaulfield said:
Thanks. Besides God had never suffered in a human nature before or died in a human nature.
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No God never sinned and the sin is what was put upon the flesh of human.
But I wonder if God was saddened by the angels turning away and then Adam turning away. His way of redemption was the answer.
 
Genesis315 said:
Yes, He is omniscient. But we would not know what it was like to be like God (which is what Holy Writ says we will be if we follow, the Way, who is the Divine Logos made flesh).
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On the other hand, we would not even have been here. So the whole question is kind of moot.
 
God would have known what it is to be human without the Incarnaton (Ps 103:14), but we would not.
 
JMJ / MMM 080518
Hello holdencaulfield and all others –
Sure God would have Known. How could an effect be and not be utterly Known by its Cause? God.

But the important thing is that God didn’t become, didn’t identity Himself with humanity so He could Know … but rather to SHOW us, to DEMONSTRATE to us, to PROVE to us HIS INFINITE LOVE FOR US, INDIVIDUALLY AND COLLECTIVELY.

God had no need. WE are the ones, we dull, staring cows … we sinners and loving it … WE had insurmountable needs that only God could solve … by removing all our garbage and meriting for us Divine Life (a Life that COULD not properly belong to any creature).

IT’S THAT SIMPLE.
John (JohnJFarren) Trinity5635@aol.com
 
It has been my belief for some time that God experiences life through his creation, and to the degree that we are doing his will, God is acting through us as well. Jesus expressed God so perfectly that he was in fact divine. Experience and knowledge are not the same. I can read about throwing a major league baseball for years, but I cannot understand the knowledge in an experiential way until I actually throw a ball.
 
We exist only in the Mind of God. If He stopped thinking about us for an instant, we would cease to exist. It is unimaginable, then, that He could have not understood human suffering at any point.

God intends what He intends from all eternity and into all eternity. He does not “change His mind”. His intention is His act. He intends nothing that does not happen. He cannot think of anything new because He is infinite and all-knowing from all eternity.

There is no time in God. All things are present to Him.

Therefore, the suffering of Jesus always was and always will be, and that suffering was always present to God, by His own intention. Absolutely staggering when you think about it.

Jesus’ appearance was in “time” because we cannot really understand anything that is not in that pathway.
 
Ridgerunner said:
We exist only in the Mind of God. If He stopped thinking about us for an instant, we would cease to exist. It is unimaginable, then, that He could have not understood human suffering at any point.

God intends what He intends from all eternity and into all eternity. He does not “change His mind”. His intention is His act. He intends nothing that does not happen. He cannot think of anything new because He is infinite and all-knowing from all eternity.

There is no time in God. All things are present to Him.

Therefore, the suffering of Jesus always was and always will be, and that suffering was always present to God, by His own intention. Absolutely staggering when you think about it.

Jesus’ appearance was in “time” because we cannot really understand anything that is not in that pathway.
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Absolutely staggering when you think about it.

**
 
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